Welder -- The small metal filter is a standard in-line throw- away unit available at any auto store, forget the fram number just now. If you cut one of these open you see that the internal filter element is clamped directly over the output spigot, yes, the oil does contact the steel output hose barb so there is a tiny amount of surface that something could flake off of, don't see how this can be eliminated. I have been using these filters in the fuel system for several years without a problem.

Band heaters -- We will just have to disagree, I don't like them.

Cummins Valves -- The question mark was concerning there "heated fuel system". I have not seen the vehicle, only talked with the folks over the phone, it may be that they were not getting the oil up to full temp, can't say for sure. The problem had not reoccurred in the several months that had elepsed from the time they started blending in 10% diesel.

Hose wrap -- one of the problems I have with this is that I am trying to keep the hot water hoses in direct contact with the fuel lines, and completely covered with insulation, directly up to any fittings, this makes it difficult to configure the hoses so there is enough free hose to allow the wrapped section to either be unwrapped or dropped down from over the filter as an in-tact loop bundle, just seems like it will be cumbersome to handle and somewhat difficult to insulate.

You folks are wearing me down about placing the hot water in direct contact with the outer surface of a spin-on filter. -- I am now considering making a close-bottomed double shell water jacket (water flows down one side, across the bottom, and back up the other side)to totally enclose the spin-on element. This will keep almost as much heat on the outside of the filter as the direct contact with the water and the outer surface of the water jacket can be covered with permanent insulation, it just adds a bit of complexity to building the water jacket unit. The idea is for this water jacket to be totally enclosed and use short vertical 5/8 steel tubing nipples, with "O" rings, rising out of it's top surface, for the in/out water fittings. These in/out nipples will slip up into holes through the 1/2 inch aluminum plate, the holes will have ball valves on the upper side of the aluminum plate to turn off the water flow when dropping this water jacket down and away from over the filter cartridge. All the water will be contained in the water jacket when it is removed so no mess or water loss. The water jacket will be held against the bottom side of the aluminum plate with a couple of over-center latches. There will be a small opening in the center of the bottom of the water jacket. (3/8 tubing welded between the inner and outer walls) so any leaks from around the filter seal will have a place to drip out to indicate there is an internal leak. This takes much more fabrication but it removes any problem of cross-contamination between the fuel and water. It also allows for easy removal of the water jacket without the need to mess with any hoses, the total installation is clean as all the hot water hoses, fuel lines, and water jacket can be permanetly insulated and are solidly and permanetly terminated at solidy mounted fittings.

Hi Tim.

It just adds a bit of complexity---Yeah, buddy. I know what you mean there. It took me a while to finally finish designing my coolant heated svo filter and then after I finished the main body, I discovered that the element didn't seal to my satisfaction. Oh well, back to the drawing board for me, I guess.

I'd love to see your design! Sounds pretty cool!

http://www.vegcar.net/2006_09_01_vegcar_archive.html

another heated filter head

Omar
www.omarsales.com

The red stuff on the heater hose wrap of my filter is high temp red RTV silicone sealer. I put some thin plastic around the filter (as a spacer and to keep the RTV from sticking to the filter) and then gooed up in between the hoses, tie wrapped the hose ends to stuff in the engine temporarily to keep it tight, then smoothed the RTV between the heater hose wraps.

Hi B.K.

What brand of filter do you use? What model? You said it's a 2 micron? Is it cellulose, synthetic or microglass?

It's the stock Permacool filter. From it's description, it's rated to filter diesel, alcohol, gasoline, etc., etc. so I figured it should work for WVO. I really don't know what filter material it is. It's supposed to be a 2 micron filter, and it has the water drian valve on the bottom. One of the main reasons I got it was to use the filter head, it's got a standard thread (I think 1"-14tpi) and that's the same size as the Cat filters and several others. The below is from the Permacool website.....

"Use a Perma-Cool® Fuel Filter & Water Separator to ensure delivery of clean and water-free fuel to your engine. Whether you use diesel, gasoline, methanol, ethanol, or gasahol, the Perma-Cool® 24,000 mile filter element does the job. Fuel additives are no problem either. There are three Perma-Cool® fuel filter and water separator models to choose from. All three models withstand up to 90 p.s.i. line pressure. All are adaptable to automotive, industrial or marine applications. Replacement elements are sold separately."

Racor makes 2 micron elements with the 1"-14 thread too.

What bugs me about using coolant to heat your
Veggie is:

1.The resulting filter can be large & Cumbersome to deal with the oil change

2.Inefficient use of coolant.
Seems to me one should use coolant heat in
the most effective manner. Since there is not
an unlimited supply of heat in coolant I
would try to save as much as possible for my
FPHE, which gives you the most bang for your
buck in terms of coolant heat utilization.
Would also need coolant for the lines to the
tank and for the tank, but would use just
enough and not overdue heating the tank.*

*yes this is my opinion only and I realize that
along with a**holes, everyone has one...

So, since it seems to me oil filters arent made for heat exchange & it would not be the best use of coolant, I have descided to go with an electric solution for my goldnerod spin-on filter. I have a batch of 200 watt custom fitted heater wraps for the goldenrod that I should have in about three weeks. Will get a pic out once they arrive.

I disagree about the heat available. I pretty much have an unlimited amount of heat from coolant, IMHO. I run my 5/8" heater hose straight from the output of the head to the 26 plate FPHE, out of the 26 to 3 wraps around the filter, out of the engine bay and down to the frame mounted VO tank, thru a 16 plate FPHE at the tank and then back up to the coolant return point. All the hoses are UN-insulated, so they are wasting heat into the air, as is the filter wrap. The temperature of my vehicle at operating temp has not gone down, and the VO temp at the filter head (just before it goes out to the IP) is about 20°F lower than the coolant temp coming into the system (right at the head). Coolant temps run about 190-195°F, VO temps run about 170-175°F.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Yaz:
What bugs me about using coolant to heat your
Veggie is:

1.The resulting filter can be large & Cumbersome to deal with the oil change

My coolant wrapped filter is not too large and is very easy to change.

quote:

2.Inefficient use of coolant.
Seems to me one should use coolant heat in
the most effective manner. Since there is not
an unlimited supply of heat in coolant I
would try to save as much as possible for my
FPHE...

As long as the FPHE is the first thing the coolant goes to you are using it very efficiently. There is a large amount of heat available on my truck, much more than is required to get 160F even right after switchover. It works great even at -10F which is the coldest we had last winter.

quote:

Originally posted by SunWizard:

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Yaz:
What bugs me about using coolant to heat your
Veggie is:

1.The resulting filter can be large & Cumbersome to deal with the oil change

My coolant wrapped filter is not too large and is very easy to change.

quote:

2.Inefficient use of coolant.
Seems to me one should use coolant heat in
the most effective manner. Since there is not
an unlimited supply of heat in coolant I
would try to save as much as possible for my
FPHE...

As long as the FPHE is the first thing the coolant goes to you are using it very efficiently. There is a large amount of heat available on my truck, much more than is required to get 160F even right after switchover. It works great even at -10F which is the coldest we had last winter.

Dont doubt you at all...but Im sure there are circumstances where it may not be the case. My Cummins tends to run cold as does my Benz. On the Cummins, I recently took a 265 mile highway drive this summer and the coolant never got much higher than 160F if the OEM gauge is to be beleived. As for the cumbersome filter, seems most pics I have seen of them are not pretty looking for size, maintenance. But if yours is great to handle, tip of the hat to you!

So I guess I am going this route via my experience and observations, but whatever works for you works is fine by me..I just hope to have another effective choice for greasers.

My Benz used to run cold, I replaced the thermostat and it cured the problem.

Hi Tom.

You know, I sorta torn about hose wrapped filters VS. electric heated filters. I think they compare somthing like this:

HOSE:

(Good points) Cheap to buy (a couple extra feet of hose and some zap straps). No current draw. No chance of bad connections, short circuits etc. No wiring to install.

(Bad points) More difficult to handle when changing filters (more is relative). Takes a little longer before it starts to heat up (again, little is relative).

ELECTRIC:

(Good points) Instant heat. Easier handling when changing filters. Looks nicer than hosewrap.

(Bad points) Costs much more (not very relative). Always draws current when in operation.


Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I'd say.

The fact that we all have radiators suggests that although coolant heat isn't infinite, it's likely the greater necessary surplus of wasted energy our engines produce. Automotive electricity is neither free, nor infinite.

Extra kinetic energy is required to spin the alternator when it is "creating" electricity. One could argue that since the veggie is free and infinitely renewable, then so is the 12volt amperage. At that point, I'd say that the hot water in the hose is also free and infinite too then. Biofuels will only be infinite until the sun burns out, then goes super nova. At that point, we'll need a new star for photosynthesis to continue.

quote:

Originally posted by welder:
Hi Tom.

You know, I sorta torn about hose wrapped filters VS. electric heated filters. I think they compare somthing like this:

HOSE:

(Good points) Cheap to buy (a couple extra feet of hose and some zap straps). No current draw. No chance of bad connections, short circuits etc. No wiring to install.

(Bad points) More difficult to handle when changing filters (more is relative). Takes a little longer before it starts to heat up (again, little is relative).

ELECTRIC:

(Good points) Instant heat. Easier handling when changing filters. Looks nicer than hosewrap.

(Bad points) Costs much more (not very relative). Always draws current when in operation.


Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I'd say.

The fact that we all have radiators suggests that although coolant heat isn't infinite, it's likely the greater necessary surplus of wasted energy our engines produce. Automotive electricity is neither free, nor infinite.

Extra kinetic energy is required to spin the alternator when it is "creating" electricity. One could argue that since the veggie is free and infinitely renewable, then so is the 12volt amperage. At that point, I'd say that the hot water in the hose is also free and infinite too then. Biofuels will only be infinite until the sun burns out, then goes super nova. At that point, we'll need a new star for photosynthesis to continue.

Well I think that about sums it up!

THAT'S what we need...the above exchange. Even though there are sales to be made and everyone has their own opinions, a discussion was had and points were made without it getting personal, and without going beyond the facts and experiences. Cool!

quote:

Originally posted by B.K. Hosken:
THAT'S what we need...the above exchange. Even though there are sales to be made and everyone has their own opinions, a discussion was had and points were made without it getting personal, and without going beyond the facts and experiences. Cool!

Yeah but whats the Vegas odds of not starting a Holy War on the topic of what casues polymerization?

Unfortunately ther appear to be many subjects that cannot be discussed in a civil manner on any public forum. Even the topic of heated filters can easily degrade unless those posting choose to refrain from comments that encourage un civil behavior. When personalities clash in forums useful discussion tends to end.

I would like to see a bit more discussion on the actual requirements of a heated filter.

I personally believe that in most cases they simply have to be "self thawing" if a FPHE is used to heat VO fuel passing on to them. This really does not take all that much energy. And if one subscribes to the "warm the engine before switching to VO fuel" a simple coolant wrap is usually more than suffient for this IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:
...I would like to see a bit more discussion on the actual requirements of a heated filter.

I personally believe that in most cases they simply have to be "self thawing" if a FPHE is used to heat VO fuel passing on to them. This really does not take all that much energy. And if one subscribes to the "warm the engine before switching to VO fuel" a simple coolant wrap is usually more than suffient for this IMO.

Let me paint a picture here. Engine is up to temp. Outside temp below freezing. WVO in FPHE just prior to filter or heated filter head has veg up to temp. veg in filter proper is still "cold" because of no fuel flow through veg line "yet". Now, the valve is opened and "cold" veg goes out of filter into IP... Is this where "thermal shock" happens? Causing some catastrophic IP failures that have been reported? Or, do you all put a "final heat exchanger" just before the IP??

Dana, this speaks directly to your point about defining the requirements for a "heated filter"

If a final heater is after the filter, I would think that the only requirement for the filter heat would be to just "thaw" the wvo enough to make it flow.

coolant-heated veggie filter from VegPower Systems in Ithaca, New York. It uses standard fuel filters available from NAPA, Baldwin, Wix, Donaldson, etc

www.southerngrease.com/project220d.htm



Omar
www.omarsales.com

quote:

Originally posted by RNCarl:

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:
...I would like to see a bit more discussion on the actual requirements of a heated filter.

I personally believe that in most cases they simply have to be "self thawing" if a FPHE is used to heat VO fuel passing on to them. This really does not take all that much energy. And if one subscribes to the "warm the engine before switching to VO fuel" a simple coolant wrap is usually more than suffient for this IMO.

Let me paint a picture here. Engine is up to temp. Outside temp below freezing. WVO in FPHE just prior to filter or heated filter head has veg up to temp. veg in filter proper is still "cold" because of no fuel flow through veg line "yet". Now, the valve is opened and "cold" veg goes out of filter into IP... Is this where "thermal shock" happens? Causing some catastrophic IP failures that have been reported? Or, do you all put a "final heat exchanger" just before the IP??

I would never put the filter between my last heating device and IP for the above reason. My oil goes thru the filter only once, then to the FPHE/Vegtherm before it ends up in the IP to be looped back to the FPHE/Vegtherm.

A silicon wrap John mentioned for the filter for a few minutes while the engine warms up will thaw the filter. So I am not treating the filter as a point of heating outside of thawing. So dont see why I should loop coolant around where it is no longer needed after the first few minutes.

But you know thats just my preference.