quote:

http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3127&page=3
read thru the BG Cast link again your heat Exchanger in the wvo tank should look like this you can buy this heat exchanger for about $10 and the fittings from mcmaster and car for about $15
here is the link to where you can buy the heat exchanger

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product....il/iid/9248/cid/2224

Station wagons here is a tank that works well with a station wagon
https://www.plantdrive.com/shop/product.php?productid=16174&cat=75&page=1
you guys could make one in metal shop

take a look at bg cast install he has lots of photo's

http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2828

and do not forget test your injectors
here is link to a home made pop tester

If you have over 100k on your injectors you should test them... you should test them anyway...







Have you started collecting WVO yet? have you set up a wvo filter station yet?
Keep going you will get it done

In your spare time you may want to do a compression test and see where your motor is at before you start running on wvo


Designed to check compression on most domestic and foreign diesel engines.
Quick-connect adapter
Reads pressure from 0 to 1000 PSI
2-9/16" diameter gauge
Thumb button air release
Comes with adapters for GM, Ford, Lincoln, Isuzu, Mercedes Benz, Kubota, Toyota, Volkswagen, Peugeot


ITEM 93644-2VGA
$24.99

$19.99

quote:

Originally posted by Fattywagonman:

quote:

Placing a VO fuel tank inside the pasenger compartment is technically illegal and marginally unsafe. Placing a diesel fuel tank inside the passenger compartment is clearly unsafe and illegal.

Yes and so is running an illegal fuel like veggie oil...

Is this really that big of a deal....

Fuel cells are significantly different from a fuel tank.
They are different specifically because it is so unsafe to have a plain tank of fuel inside the passenger compartment. Folks driving racecars accept a much higher risk than the average passenger in a car. And due to the high priority of weight removal from race cars they accept the additional risk of a "fuel tank" inside the "passenger compartment" of race cars. But the danger of using a plain tank is still too high a risk for them...which is why they are not allowed in race cars and fuel cells are.

A tank of diesel fuel in the engine compartment is also not legal or safe. But it is more safe than one in the passenger compartment.

When it is possible to employ a safe and legal option I cannot understand why anyone would choose an unsafe or illegal one even if it is slightly easier. Why one would encourage such a project to use illegal or unsafe shortcuts is beyond my comprehension.

I spoke up when I saw a possibly unsafe/illegal situation developing. I have not been asked for advice by the project members but felt obligated to speak up in this case.

Wow, just saw this. Wy would you ever put a tank of diesel in a car, particularly one driven by young people? Bad advice, poor forethought, illegal, dangerous, etc....

There is room between the rear buper and the stock tank for a small (5gal) tank, I have one in my shop and will send it to the school if they like.

Just a quick thought...I can't see the myspace pictures, but the stock diesel tank sits in behind the back seat and the trunk...I would not put a fuel cell in the passgenger compartment, but putting in the trunk is no different than what Mercedes did on the stock vehicle. I would probably not put one under the hood where things get significantly warmer than the trunk (exhaust manifold/turbo). I bet this class got a lot more advice than they were expecting...lol.

here is a tank that goes behind the stock tank you have to move the vacuum conatiner for the door locks but there is space for a 9 gal tank look at this site

Omar




here is one more station wagon tank idea



anyway take a look at this site

http://www.zerotec.com/vegenergy/300dw02.mv


good luck
Omar
www.omarsales.com

This is a station wagon Forest.
No trunk.

quote:

Originally posted by forrestkk:
Just a quick thought...I can't see the myspace pictures, but the stock diesel tank sits in behind the back seat and the trunk...I would not put a fuel cell in the passgenger compartment, but putting in the trunk is no different than what Mercedes did on the stock vehicle. I would probably not put one under the hood where things get significantly warmer than the trunk (exhaust manifold/turbo). I bet this class got a lot more advice than they were expecting...lol.

So forget what I said...guess I need a myspace account!!

However, I would be willing to bet the they have a metal shop in close proximity to the auto shop (if it was anything like my highscool). If I were to have to put the tank in the cargo area of a wagon then I would have the metal shop build a metal cover that was on hinges or had 4 pins to secure it to the floor (3/16" steel) and then use cam lock fasteners to secure it, and seal the sides/bottom with some heavy weather strip and then lift the cover to fuel and secure it to drive...with proper venting of the container to outside air it should provide adequate seperation from the passenger compartment, fume prevention, and would be far thicker than what seperates the fuel tank from the passgenger compart now (or what is in a Mercedes sedan. Or you could just use that cool looking tank that Omar has.

Or you could go from saying "Just put a fuel tank in the back, it'll be OK" to saying "build a steel box, sealed and vented and secure it well and it might be OK" all in only 2 posts.....

Or you coould take the time to read Forest's two posts again a bit more carefully and notice that he didn't realize the vehicle in question was a wagon, not a sedan.

I've vote to make the stock tank for diesel and put the WVO in the back of the wagon. WVO in the passenger section of a vehicle does not present the hazards to the passengers that diesel does - it's flash point is much higher, and doesn't have nasty-smelling fumes.

Craig

Craig can you post a photo of your wagon tank?
thanks O

Here's a link:

https://www.plantdrive.com/shop/product.php?productid=16174&cat=75&page=1

Craig

quote:

Originally posted by Dieselrover:
Or you take the time to read Forest's two post again bit more carefully and notice that he didn't realize the vehicle in quesion was a wagon, not a sedan.

I've vote to make the stock tank for diesel and put the WVO in the back of the wagon.

Craig

Either way, a sedan has the diesel tank separated from the passenger compartment by a steel wall and on US spec vehicles there is another wall between the tank and the trunk, this is not present on Euro models and was mandated by the DOT. In either case the fuel tank is completely separated from the passenger compartment by a wall, the tank vented outside the vehicle and the tank secured. Race vehicles require (depending on class) that the driver be clad in a Nomex suit (fireproof) and that the vehicle have fire suppressant systems, in addition fuel cells are encased with metal, have a plastic inner liner and are filled with foam. A far cry from placing a home made metal box in the passenger compartment filled with diesel, in fact not only would this be dangerous in event of an accident it would off-gas known cancer causing fumes.

Did I miss something here?

PS I assume you meant to write "Or you take the time to read Forest's two post(s) again (a) bit more carefully and notice that he didn't realize the vehicle in ques(t)ion was a wagon, not a sedan."

quote:

Either way, a sedan has the diesel tank separated from the passenger compartment by a steel wall and on US spec vehicles there is another wall between the tank and the trunk, this is not present on Euro models and was mandated by the DOT. In either case the fuel tank is completely separated from the passenger compartment by a wall, the tank vented outside the vehicle and the tank secured.

So much controversy over a friggin fuel tank... Aren't we a good example for the kids????
CG, the wall you are referring to is really a piece of loose fitting 20 ga. tin held in by a few screws... the one between the seat and trunk is a little heavier but still has holes so IMO these are not a wall at all... I do agree with venting to the outside... seems like a good idea... as far as installing a tank behind the rear bumper that's also a good place... remember the pinto... Benz put the tank behind the rear seat in the sedan because that's the safest place... but these folks just need a few gals of diesel to get started so I thought the washer area might be the easiest / safest option to store a few gals of diesel for starting and shut down... Shouldn't we be trying to encourage these folks in stead of having a 2 page debate on the best place to store the 2nd. tank...????.... and so the drama continues...

ANYWAY ..............

I found a few clips you should look at when you get time.

You have to down load quick time if you do not have it on your computer.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html


http://homepage.mac.com/withinsightvideo/Sites/withinsi...videos/emissions.htm


Emissions
by Ed Beggs


http://homepage.mac.com/withinsightvideo/Sites/withinsight/videos/sulfur.htm

Sulfur

Omar
www.omarsales.com

quote:

Originally posted by Fattywagonman:


So much controversy over a friggin fuel tank... Aren't we a good example for the kids????
... Shouldn't we be trying to encourage these folks in stead of having a 2 page debate on the best place to store the 2nd. tank...????.... and so the drama continues...

Actually, I think it would be irresponsible to not step up and advise... it's something worth aruing over, IMO.

If your kid was making a tree fort using 1/4" plywood and finishing nails, would you think it stifling to make sure he proceeded saftely?

We're talking about a car that will be used on public roads, not a soap box derby.

To be frank, I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to have a fuel tank in the passenger compartment.

I think this is a fantastic project for the class, and you should all be applauded for your efforts.

Having said that, I think you may want to revist a couple items in the design.

It may behoove you to remember that the Pinto was a gasoline powered car, I am sure I need not remind you of the differences in characteristics between diesel and gasoline. Considering this I do not see the area behind the bumper (under the body) to be a terrible location.

That said I chose to build a VO tank which occupies the spare tire area in the wagon rather than use the tank I built, hence my offer of the tank. I elected not to convert the stock tank for several reasons; Exposure of mild steel to VO will accelerate polymerization of the fuel, I run a licensed shop and altering the stock fuel tank and emissions controls associated with it carry a $10k penalty and lastly I think it a poor solution as the vehicle no longer has any range on diesel.

I believe that the object of this project is for the students to research the problems they are trying to overcome, reach conclusions and implement them. Here they have been provided with several contradictory points of view, several real points to consider and several suggestions of possible solutions. I do believe that this has been a good example, do you not?

now for a few words from our would be leaders

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Aqn4becHoI

Robert Fitzgerald Press Conference Excise Tax

I found this Mercedes 300TD video with a heated WVO tank in the front ... takes a while to download and you need quick time ... here is the link...

http://drkostow.com/temp/diesel3small.mov

Omar
www.omarsales.com

quote:

I am sure I need not remind you of the differences in characteristics between diesel and gasoline.

This is why I don't think it's really that big of a deal to mount a small tank inside the vehicle.... as long as the tank is constructed well and vented to the outside... It's not my preference and it may not be legal...but I think there are lots of other more important things to consider...

quote:

That said I chose to build a VO tank which occupies the spare tire area in the wagon rather than use the tank I built

The spare tire area in a wagon is inside the passenger compartment.... So now I'm confused???? You are advocating using the spare tire area but think putting a tank inside is a problem??

quote:

I believe that the object of this project is for the students to research the problems they are trying to overcome, reach conclusions and implement them. Here they have been provided with several contradictory points of view, several real points to consider and several suggestions of possible solutions. I do believe that this has been a good example, do you not?

I do think healthy debate can be productive but some folks just chose to focus on the negative... I think we would do better to mix it up a bit and no be so hard line...
Something like "gee that looks great and it may work but you may want to consider??? and it might work better or be a bit safer"

BTW good Vids' Omar....

quote:

Originally posted by Fattywagonman:The spare tire area in a wagon is inside the passenger compartment.... So now I'm confused???? You are advocating using the spare tire area but think putting a tank inside is a problem??

Yes you are confused. The tank I place in the vehicle is for vegetable oil, you know the stuff you can buy at Safeway and take home in a paperbag, the stuff which does not give off cancer casuing fumes, the stuff that is even less flammable than diesel.