This comes up with the idea of Glow plug heaters. So first of all how many people run 2 filters, that is 1 after the original VO filter?

For those of you with secondary filters:
how fine do you go on the second filter, anybody go down to 2 microns? What kind of psi do you see at that second filter? And how long do your elements last? Thanks FYI.

Cheap little filters inserted inline after some GP heaters make me leery. I have a dedicated Racor marine diesel filter but it's very small and only capable of 7 psi/ 15 GPH. Originally I wanted to use it but was hesitant due to it's size and low pressure. My system pulls about 5 psi max but it's difficult to say what the second filter would do on VO where it's up to the max now. A glow plug heater right before the second filter would obviously be helpful but it still comes down to how long before the filter was clogged, my 10 micron fleetguard filter rarely ever gets clogged. The Racor design has 4 ports so I would run the diesel flush back through the filter. This could majority eliminate cold clogging issues with VO as I let my system idle on diesel for awhile before shutting down.

This is not a complete answer to your question, but check my signature .

Back home in Germany about 15 years ago the glow plug heaters were the non plus ultra.
Nobody uses this heaters anymore and if they use this type without direct contact to the oil





Now after less riskier heating methods are available for little money you people are going to reinvent the wheel.
A coarse filter will do because flakes created by the glowplug are usually big and that’s why they are dangerous for the IP.
For your type of IP a 2micron piece of dirt will be swallowed without creating any problem. Your recommended Diesel filter is not smaller then 10 micron.

Hey Klaus, I worked out a very simple way to avoid direct contact with the fuel, basically the plug tip is surrounded by a closed nipple and will post pics on Omar's thread when all the parts are assembled in a few days. It's just because I have to employ tees to incorporate a inline pump that the GP heaters make sense and in the cold of winter greasecar ain't cutting it. I could possibly have 3 heaters in a stage that is a very intriguing idea, each with gradual temp increase from 140 up to 180F. Along with the primer pump the heaters will get switched off when VO is not running to avoid problems. I will also have a manual switch off so they will add heat only when needed.

The Racor 120 series is akin to the rest of the Racor line and has elements in 30 - 10 - 2. I have both a 10 and a 2 now so I'll give it a try. My Denso pump is fine as you mention but overall the truck likes the thinnest filtered oil I can give it. The 4 port configuration is great so the flush should be enough to keep the element from cold saturation which really kills them fast. How long they last will be the ultimate determining factor though in whether I go with 3 heaters or just the 2 before my main VO filter.

quote:

Originally posted by muzak:

For those of you with secondary filters:
how fine do you go on the second filter, anybody go down to 2 microns? What kind of psi do you see at that second filter? And how long do your elements last? Thanks FYI.

I have a Holley VoluMAX 28 micron stainless steel mesh screen filter post Vegtherm Mega just prior to my lift pump/IP. Its sole purpose is to catch any chicken skin that may flake off the Vegtherm Mega and damage my injectors. The fuel pressure psi is normal with it. The screen lasts forever since it's cleanable. I clean it out once a year since removing it is a PITA, but every time I cleaned it it really wasn't clogged at all. Injectors on my Powerstroke are very expensive as is the labor to R&R. That's why I spent so much on that filter.

http://www.streetperformance.c.../65874-10-4028v.html

"Chunk" catching filters are a wise investment regardless of if a glow plug type heater is used or not. But smaller micron ratings on such a filter are not neccesary or even wise IMO. Your main onboard VO filter should be matched to equal the stock fuel filter. The ONLY bits that the "chunk catchers" should have to deal with are those created by post filter heating devices and particulates introduced to the post filter fuel system when it is being assembled.

I consider "chunk catchers" to be a form of very cheap insurance.

Dana I like your term "chunk catchers". It's a catchy phrase. Actually I have their Viton® screen not the ss one. Yup, insurance is a good thing.

What is a good chunk catcher

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:
"Chunk" catching filters are a wise investment regardless of if a glow plug type heater is used or not. But smaller micron ratings on such a filter are not neccesary or even wise IMO. Your main onboard VO filter should be matched to equal the stock fuel filter. The ONLY bits that the "chunk catchers" should have to deal with are those created by post filter heating devices and particulates introduced to the post filter fuel system when it is being assembled.

I consider "chunk catchers" to be a form of very cheap insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by merk:
What is a good chunk catcher

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:
"Chunk" catching filters are a wise investment regardless of if a glow plug type heater is used or not. But smaller micron ratings on such a filter are not neccesary or even wise IMO. Your main onboard VO filter should be matched to equal the stock fuel filter. The ONLY bits that the "chunk catchers" should have to deal with are those created by post filter heating devices and particulates introduced to the post filter fuel system when it is being assembled.

I consider "chunk catchers" to be a form of very cheap insurance.

These make pretty good ones unless your pre-IP VO temp is higher than 160°F in which case you may want to go to one with a metal screen.

quote:

Nobody uses this heaters anymore and if they use this type without direct contact to the oil

Now after less riskier heating methods are available for little money you people are going to reinvent the wheel.

The risk involved in using a direct contact glow plug heater with an inline "chunk catcher" is even lower than the risk with that less efficient design.

Good engineering is not designing something more complex and expensive that is less efficient. I am very skeptical that "no-one" "back home" in Germany uses the direct contact type anymore.

And who are you calling "you people"?

Hello Dana,

I apologize if my language skills are not up to your standard .
Your question,

“ And who are you calling "you people"? “

honestly is lost on me.
If I offended the audience it was not intended.

Back to a more technical approach .
A little search will show that three or already four years ago we had the very same discussion and I understand that your position stands like a rock.
That might be old age…being less flexible anymore ?

If you are arguing :
-----
The risk involved in using a direct contact glow plug heater with an inline "chunk catcher" is even lower than the risk with that less efficient design.
-----
....then I assume you have tested the design I have shown and you have proof that this design is less efficient ???
Knowing you very well I know you would never ever make such a claim without proof !

Good engineering is not designing something more complex and expensive that is less efficient. I am very skeptical that "no-one" "back home" in Germany uses the direct contact type anymore.


usually my countrymen have a good reputation for very efficient design.
I have asked the question if people still running glow plug heaters in a popular German forum.
Nobody came forward but using glow plug heaters are called an outdated technology.
I guess that’s proof enough that I did not make it up on my own.
Do you agree ?

I hope that helps to answer your questions and I look forward to see your facts concerning efficiency.


BMW Fan

quote:

And who are you calling "you people"?

Was intended as a joke. That is why the smiley is tacked on the end.

quote:

four years ago we had the very same discussion and I understand that your position stands like a rock.

Yes..the truth is a difficult position to change from.


German engineering WAS legendary..many years ago. Not so much for the past decade or two. At least among engineers. The general public may still believe it though.

As for the efficiency of an indirect heater compared to a direct heater yes..I have tested despite the well understood principals of thermodynamics. I invite you to make the same side by side comparison if you need incontrovertable proof.

quote:

I have asked the question if people still running glow plug heaters in a popular German forum.
Nobody came forward

Not a valid proof that "no one" is using them. There are MANY reasons you might get such a (non)response.

ANY high temp inline VO heater can create particulates vial carbonization or polymerization. This is the basis of my statement that

quote:

The risk involved in using a direct contact glow plug heater with an inline "chunk catcher" is even lower than the risk with that less efficient design.

Sorry to interrupt, but I was just wondering if anyone has any solid info on the useful lifespan of a GP SVO heater?

Do they burn themselves out too quickly, or do they last a reasonable time period?

Also, are there better longer lasting plugs that would be better suited 4 this application?

Glow plugs tend to last years in a GP heater as long as air is not allowed to accumulate around them. There ARE glow plugs that are much heavier duty which are even tolerant of this that cost about 40% more.

quote:

Originally posted by welder:
Sorry to interrupt, but I was just wondering if anyone has any solid info on the useful lifespan of a GP SVO heater?

Do they burn themselves out too quickly, or do they last a reasonable time period?

Also, are there better longer lasting plugs that would be better suited 4 this application?

[OT]


GP longevity.


I think BOSCH GN Duraterm's would be good. N suffix means after glow.

Also read recently that steel tipped g.p.'s are now being introduced. They have a longer life expectancy than ceramic in the combustion chamber.
kinda apples-an- oranges, but...

Bosch Duraterms or Beru GN type

IIRC Ceramic plugs were a development because they heat up quicker, they were only used in some engines. This technology may well have been superseded - I've heard of people having trouble with ceramic plugs in VW Tdis shattering in use and the parts damaging the engine (also possibly a link to using WVO)

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:
ANY high temp inline VO heater can create particulates vial carbonization or polymerization. This is the basis of my statement that [QUOTE] The risk involved in using a direct contact glow plug heater with an inline "chunk catcher" is even lower than the risk with that less efficient design.

Hello Dana,

I have my doubts that you ever came close to a device like the one I have shown.
You are very specific by saying :
with that less efficient design.
If you use a glow plug to heat veggie, then you deal with a very small hot surface.
To transfer enough heat it must be really hot or you got no effect.
The plans you are selling called “ little devil “ can’t be named a piece of ingenuity but still made you a lot of money.
The device shown , precisely manufactured ( CNC) and equipped with accurate temp sensors and a fast reacting GP don’t need to get “that” hot because of the much bigger contact area.
Time wise the bigger surface guaranties that the oil is much longer in contact.

Heat is transferred evenly.

Tested side on side against your devil and it showed much better efficiency, even temp profile and less temp fluctuation.

I have no commercial interest in selling , not my product, so I really don’t care.
People have choices …….

A Bosch Duratherm is a very fast acting GP, gets very hot and a very bad choice if used in direct contact with oil

BMW Fan

PS : I thought you would not allow jokes because they are off topic ?

quote:

the bigger surface guaranties that the oil is much longer in contact.

It also guarentees that much more heat is lost to the surrounding air Klaus. Which is why tested side by side it is less efficient than a simpler direct contact type heater.

You can doubt and cast as much doubt as you wish. It does not change facts.

As for jokes (and insults) taking discussions off topic. I gave up asking for folks to self moderate quite a while ago. It was wasted effort. Most form members do so without being asked. And those that don't are apparrently not capable of doing so.

quote:

As for jokes (and insults) taking discussions off topic. I gave up asking for folks to self moderate quite a while ago. It was wasted effort. Most form members do so without being asked. And those that don't are apparrently not capable of doing so.

...and now you are pulling jokes on others ?

quote:

...and now you are pulling jokes on others ?

No..there is a difference between "pulling a joke" and "making a joke".

In this case I made the joke"

quote:

And who are you calling "you people"?

because I thought it might be a gentle rebuke to your assertion that:

quote:

Now after less riskier heating methods are available for little money you people are going to reinvent the wheel.

Whenever someone asserts superiority by using the perjoritive "you people" it makes me cringe. I thought that bringing it to your attention in a gentle non accusatory manner might help. I forgot how much Dueschlanders value abrasivness. Unfortunately if every body were to be that abrasive on this forum we would need a very active moderator as it can easily be interpreted as insulting or obnoxious.

I can see you did not "get it" so (in the immortal words of Emily Latella) "Nevermind".