Nothing found in the search so thought I would ask.
I am a BD'r and have a 110 gal aux tank. While the filter for this tank is heated as is the stock engine filter, I do pretty good into very cold weather with a blend of BD and petrol.
Now I want to push it to 100% BD in the aux tank. I need to heat this tank and was looking at something like the Hot Stick in a size as long as would fit in the tank vertically.
Sites I have looked at that offer these circ. units say nothing about capacity.
Any one got any ideas?
1997 F250 7.3. Nebraska winters.
Rick H...

few ideas to read thru
good luck
Omar
www.omarsales.com

Flat Plate Heat Exchanger (FPHE) installs

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/6421006031


wvo filter bag ideas and waste veggie oil filtering http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/6961060812


heated waste oil filter ideas http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/7521042961

wvo (waste veggie oil) tank ideas http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/15960555...591014102#7591014102

Thanks Omar.
I went through the threads, mainly looking at pics, man a wide variety for sure.
I think I will call Arctic Fox and get some specs from them.
I will use my 110 gal aux tank and fit some type of exchanger in it. I can not use copper dur to Biodiesel.
Rick H...

If you are looking to keep it warm while sitting overnight look into stick on heating pads, about 300 watts.

Raften,
Yes as well as underway. I think that if the BD gets up to temp, 160+ and I use the engine heater plugged in which is a norm for us (as long as theres a plug) and the tank has an insulation wrap, it would be fine overnight.
We also have the 2 stock tanks that we will blend as the weather dictates, so the set up would be a mirror of you all's SVO two tank system but without all the high dollar change over stuff. BD Does not have the extreme of SVO I am guessing as far as Filter plugging would go, but then all my filters are heated. Freezer test on my BD shows B100 at 38 F is safe.
The truck does get driven daily.

I am waiting on a call back from ARCTIC Fox engineer, he does not think the Hotfox will heat 110 gal of BD, I think that it will as our 97 is a regulated return, so warm fuel is returned to the tank.
Last winter blending I had only 1 time the filter plugged and that was when it was -7 f! I let the truck sit for a few hours and it started and ran fine. Was using B30 at the time.
Which ever route I go I will have to cut the hole(s) in the tank as there are none now.
I wish Copper played nice with Biodiesel!
Rick H...

So let me summarize to see if I am understanding correctly.

1- You start up on diesel or a weather dependant blend of biodiesel/diesel
2- You have a 2nd tank with B100 in it that you switch over to once the car has warmed up.

So basically you have a two-tank 'greasecar' like set-up without a tank heater but run B100 in the 2nd tank?

I don't see why this would be a problem at all. You don't need to heat the whole tank, just the fuel pick up as if you go on a long trip where you need more fuel the warmed fuel by the pickup will thaw the rest of the fuel in the tank over time. A Hot-Fox should do this great. If you have no restrictions in your coolant plumbing (small diameter flow) as soon as th truck is up to temp you should be able to switch over to the B100.

This is exactly what us WVO users do. Once the car has warmed up the coolant will have thawed the fuel by the pickup in the tank and in the filter and we can switch over.

Seems to me that the filter causes the biggest problems for people running high blends of bio in the winter. Since that is already heated, just add an Arctic Hot Fox and you should be golden.

Thanks for the input.
I talked with the Engineer at Arctic Fox, he was concerned about the 1.8 gal max flow rate of the 7.3 and the hot Fox. But thats under full load and MAX flow.

I am seeing more and more of what you are talking about, not heating the whole tank but a 6" area around the pickup tube AKA Hot Fox.

I am not sure why I have it stuck in my mind that the entire tank must be heated.... The thought then is, if Hot Fox mounted vertical and as the fuel level drops......

The tank is 24" tall, the fuel would still be warmed in the pickup as it is drawn out. And of course the farther one drives the more warmed fuel that is being returned to the tank. Wrap fuel lines with coolant lines on frame rail, should be good to go?
Rick H...

I didn't consider the flow rate of the Hot-Fox so I can't comment there. In my tank I have a 5/8 aluminum tube running down and around the pick-up. It is the same idea as a Hot-Fox, just uses a tube around the existing fuel pickup.

I would think if you had a heated pickup, heated filter, and coolant wrapped (HoH) fuel lines you should be good to go for starting on the first tank, waiting till the truck warms up and then switching over to the B100. As long as you get it started you should have no problems running B100 from the second tank this way.

quote:

Originally posted by Graplr:
I didn't consider the flow rate of the Hot-Fox so I can't comment there. In my tank I have a 5/8 aluminum tube running down and around the pick-up. It is the same idea as a Hot-Fox, just uses a tube around the existing fuel pickup.

Not sure how alum will react with Biodiesel.

quote:

I would think if you had a heated pickup, heated filter, and coolant wrapped (HoH) fuel lines you should be good to go for starting on the first tank, waiting till the truck warms up and then switching over to the B100. As long as you get it started you should have no problems running B100 from the second tank this way.

Pretty much what we do now.

Correction, tank is 17" tall.

Rick H...

Rick, even if you do go with the Hot Fox, consider putting on the heat pad. They are only about $30 and your fuel will be warm in the AM.

Yep, i agree since we plug the truck in every night that it is home anyway.
Also I think I have a circulating engine heater, will have to dig for that, that would also be a plus.
Rick H...

S C O R E!!!!!
I found the inline heater I have had for 10 years and never used. It is a 2250 watt heater hose circulating type. My lucky day. This will work great for when plugged in and can circ coolant through a hot fox.
Gotta go make a bracket now.
Rick H...

Rick I've had a hot fox for two+ years in my VO system. Same engine as yours ...but 100K older. No fuel restriction what so ever with a 3/8" supply line. Yes, getting the idea out of your head that the whole tank needs to be heated is a brain fart many don't comprehend initially. IMO a hot fox is a superior product that will solve your problem. No copper...all stainless steel. But as mentioned above you'll need to start on a stock tank that's blended with #2 as cold weather dictates and shouldn't switch over to the 110 gal tank until the coolant has warmed. In my VO system I wait until it's 180* but you should be able to flip tanks much sooner. I run my rear tank of B100 through my heat exchanger as this is how I plumbed my system. It's at 160* as it enters the fuel pump. Happiness is warm biodiesel. But I too must blend in the winter time.

rickh -- I dought the radiator hose mounted electric engine heater will heat the Hotfox, these engine heaters circulate the water through the radiator/engine block by thermosyphon action, this process produces almost no pressure in the system that could circulate any water down the hoses to the big tank in the bed of the truck.

I am adding a couple standard 220 volt 4500 watt hot water heater elements into the lower front side of a 100 gallon farm type fuel transfer tank. These elements will be wired in series and powered from 110 volts AC at night. This puts 55 volts on each heater and each heater produces about 250 watts, 500 watts total for the tank, this is plenty for an insulated tank as long as you give it enough time depending on the initial cold temp. I use this setup on four insulated 55 gallon barrel settling tanks with thermostats, once the oil is up to temp the heaters only run maybe 20% of the time even in well below freezing temps. Once the oil is melted and warm it will stay liquid for many hours in an insulated tank without any added heat.

I use 1/2 inch thick blue closed cell polyethalene foam (I think) Coleman camp sleeping mats for insulation, glued to tanks with contact cement, survives even mild pressure washing and does not absorb liquid.

I am also fabbing a 3 inch diameter heated pickup for this tank similar to the Hotfox but larger. I also don't like the idea of a vertical heater due to fuel contact being reduced as the tank empties and I also don't want to draw attention to the fact that this transfer tank is being actively used to fuel the truck, all the hoses leading to the Hotfox in the top of the tank are a bit of a give-away. I am adding a new opening on the end of the tank down at the bottom rear corner so the hoses are out of site inside the truck bed and the heater will be completely submerged in fuel until the tank is almost empty.

Good feed back thanks! Hi Richard....
My tank is in the bed under a fiberglass shell out of site.
I went through and freezer tested all of my Biodiesel i have on hand, 38 f the worst and 28 the best, thats the cloud point would still go through my heated filters.
To tell the truth, the only reason I am doing this is so I do not have to spend the money to blend the big tank for deer season, we hunt 450 miles away.
I guess maybe this year I will just have to pass the hat around!
Still want to install the hot fox...
The lowest blend I ever did was B30. Only got caught once temp was -7f.
Thanks again.

thinking more about the concern that while sitting plugged in, the Thermo siphon would net circ through the hot fox enough.
Maybe some type of check valve system or something to ensure the flow from this added tank heater is going only to the Hot Fox and not the block, the return would be normal back to the block. I know some Mercedes guys are using a small circ pump.
Again, maybe I am over thinking this.
Rick H...

many mercedes have an electric boost pump on their heater coolant circuit.


draws about 2-3 amps. can be run off a 12v transformer to run at home on 110V when you plug in. they allow coolant to flow just fine when they are off, too.

I think I have a couple good working units if you cant find one in a junkyard near you.

old pic, but this is what your looking for.

Hmmmmm, never seen a Mercedes in a junk yard around here!
Maybe this pump along with the stock block heater, which is 1,000 watts, would be enough?
PM Sent.
Rick H...

Have you seen the 120v tank pad heater? Stick it on your 110 gallon tank and plug it in at night. Probably available elsewhere w/o the fuel bowl heater (which fits the Mercedes stock fuel filter).

Thanks for the link, I would think I need a little more than 250 watts. Still need in conjunction with Hot Fox. Can not always find a place to plug in.
Rick H...

Ok, today I picked up a Hot Fox in tank/In line coolant exchange heater.
I must say, they are built very well!
Now I have to wait until we run some of the fuel out of the big tank, then I will proceed with the install.
If this does the trick I am done, otherwise, I will look at the true in line Arctic Fox heat, the Main Liner.
Also if any signs of over heating, which may be a possiblity as the tank level goes down, Arctic Fox makes a thermo by pass that I will install.
We'll see.
Here is a tip, if you live in a City that has a big rig dealer, such as IH, check there first, I was surprised to find them in stock and way cheaper than on line. I guess though, if you are in the South the possibilities may be somewhat limited.
Rick H...