Steve, did you run a tank or 2 of Startron tank cleaner thru? Even after 3K miles, I clogged up a tank screen again and the tank cleaner fixed it. Now running 90%WVO, 10% kerosene, and it's working great.

Still haven't had time to play with the looped return. I think I may try the "partial return" that pizzaman (I think) mentioned. It uses a small orifice to return air and a small amount of fuel and the rest is looped.

I never did run any tank cleaner through it. I don't want to stir up trouble as everything seems to be running great. The only thing I do about the tank screen is to push fuel backwards with a mityvac when I am changing out fuel filters. I have this mental picture of gunk getting pushed off the screen. I have no idea if this does anything at all. I can sometimes top out my temp gauge at 158F but most of the time I am in the 140s. Ambient temps are in the 70s and 80s here in central Florida.

I'm in FL too Steve. If you don't run the tank cleaner, I would think you'll have gunk issues. If you want to see what's floating around in there, swap the feed and return lines so you bypass the tank screen, and you'll see what's in there without having to drain or pull the tank. You may really be surprised. I didn't have problems for 3000 miles.

After about 2 years of of helping others locally do their WVO conversions but procrastinating on my own ( have been running RUG/WVO 10-20% with Power Service Cetane Boost) blend during that time . I am done except for a few details ( insulation on HOH, WVO, and everything else that needs to stay hot and neating up things with cable ties .

I am running a heated WVO pickup to universal pulse type electric pump (Autozone E8012S) through a HOH to a 26 plate FPHE (thanks Omar&BK) to- insulated 2 micron filter- to Pollak 6 Way ( hey I bought it a year ago .. before I knew about the alternatives ) .

I wonder if the FPHE should be placed after the 2 micron filter instead and maybe just add a coolant wrap heater to filter so it can better handle WV0. I will get hope to install a pre-
IP temp gauge in a few days to see what temps I am getting .


EDIT - I quick checked the temps with an IR gun thermometer and found that I needed to place the FPHE after the WVO filter to avoid getting a slug of cooler WVO to the IP when switching over to WVO . The heated pickup and HOH heated WVO seem to be enough for the filter so far. However I will go ahead and install coolant wrap heat for the filter . Now I wonder if the post FPHE Pollak 6 way can take the heat ( fingers crossed while I look into a two pump check valve system _).

Thanks

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rkpatt,

wvofortrk1_003.jpg (80 KB, 117 downloads)

Ok, You talked me into the tank cleaner. I checked one marine supply place but they didn't have it. They had other StarBrite products but not the Startron. Any thoughts on the best place to get it?

quote:

here is a note from O.K from the south
16 plate copper

Omar-
I am really digging the plate heat exchanger that you sent. I installed it in an 84 300TD with the setup that I drew for you. The car runs cool, right around 85 C. I am getting very good performance out of the heat exchanger and will probably using those instead of the vegtherm. The veggie heats fast, it runs in at a steady 160 F, no matter what speed I am running even with the heat on full blast in 20 degree weather. It runs sometimes at mid to high 150s up to high 160s.
thank you so much for sending it my way.

Just got off the phone with the HE factory they make a HE with a temp. sensor port for a thermocoupling ... so you can monitor the temp. of your HE ... is that something that interest anyone??? or just one more thing that may leak air??? What kinda of temp. are you folks getting any more photo's getting ready for another long road trip to Ca.. Omar

That thermocouple might be interesting. I'm not too satisfied with the water temp sensor I am using now. It seems to have a poor response time. I will be driving across the state and back (300 mi 1 way) next week. I'll let you know how the FPHE works.

It was warm today (70+F ambient). My fuel was approaching 190F. Holy crap.

Also, I'm starting to rethink the HE placement. On cold mornings my filter will restrict flow even though the oil at the IP is hot enough. I might move my vegtherm to just before the filter.

Seems to me like you'd be more interested in the temp before and after the he and not inside of it.

It's my installation that is referred to in the first posting of this thread. I've installed a mechanical temperature guage in the output flow of my HE.

I've a TEE piece attached to the HE and the temp sensor runs in along the top of the T with the fuel coming in and turning down the leg of the T.

My observations over the last couple of months since installation is that the temps vary quite a lot. Today for example I was pleased to be seeing 70° on the guage on quiet suburban streets.

Went for a drive in the country and on one long hill - hey I live on the edge of the flatest land on earth, anything is a hill around here!! - where I kept my foot to the floor for the minute or so it took to climb the hill, the temp actually went down. The coolant guage climbed a bit but the HE output dropped.

The only thing I can put it down to is that the high flow of fuel limited the heat intake from the HE, but I am surprised and disappointed for this to be the case. I had thought these things had such a large surface area that it would have worked much better.

The other thing is that I still haven't looped my return line, so there is a lot of fuel being pumped back to the tank. I'll be interested to see how the temps change once I loop the return, therefore lessening the flow of new fuel through the HE.

Tim

Looping and temps: we've converted a '99 Mercedes 300D - there's a photo of the tank in it's trunk on our homepage - and initially didn't loop the return (although we usually do.) We just installed a high-quality Datcon fuel temp sender and gauge for our customer, and installed a manual brass 3-port valve so he could loop or un-loop the return, and the results are stunning (and this car has a HotFox in the trunk, coolant-heated, and a coolant-heated Vormax, plus a Vegtherm Mega - and a 12V Walbro fuel pump.)

When looped, the temps are 170F (or about 75C) at idle and 175-180F (about 80C) on the highway, unlooped you can watch the temp guage drop *almost instantly* to about 120F. (This is a 6-cylinder Mercedes with high fuel flow, and this high fuel flow is made even higher by the 12V pump - we usually see much higher fuel temps in vehicles with lower fuel flow rates - but the difference in fuel temps here when looped or unlooped are pretty dramatic.)

If this car had a flat-plate heat exchanger, fuel temps looped or unlooped would be higher, but I know that if you looped your return you'd get significantly higher fuel temps.

For those worried about air problems and looping: if you've used top-quality hose clamps and fuel line, and used Teflon paste (we like Permatex High Performance Thread Sealant) on all plumbing fittins, you shouldn't have any air, and a looped return will lower the vacuum throughout the whole system by a factor of 4-8, so air leaks are less apt to occur. (On the '99 Benz, the Walbro pumps kicks in only occasionally when looped, v. running almost constantly when un-looped.)

Craig

In addition to what craig said regarding looping or not and temp. increase, I have also noticed in my TDI that fuel temps. are influenced by where in the veg. system I loop the return back to. I have looped the return back either before the filter, or right before the switching valve and after the filter. This is since I added the Vegtherm which is located right prior to the IP and right after the switching valve. After switchover with the return looped back to prior to the filter, my fuel temp. rose slowly and didn't get higher than 130f. (At outdoor temps. of 20f) With the return looped prior to the switching valve, fuel temps. rise more rapidly to 150f in a few miles depending upon outdoor temps., and reach to 190F. The fuel temp. definitely varies with fuel flow as well. Driving consistently at 55+ the fuel temp. does not go much above 155-160f, but around towm it goes to 175-190f. I usually shut the vegtherm off at about 175f.

I have a FPHE for the TDI but I am not sure I will install it as I am generally satisfied with winter fuel temps. In the Benz I am planning on a FPHE for most of my fuel heating with a heated fuel pickup in the stock tank, HOH, Coolant heated filter (salvaged 82' rabbit filter with coolant wrap) then the FPHE prior to the switching valve. The car runs at 85-90c so I am hoping for 70c with the FPHE because I would like to avoid electric heat, I primarily use the benz in the summer for my daily driver and I will loop the return fuel back to prior to the FPHE when on veg.

quote:

Originally posted by Dieselrover:
For those worried about air problems and looping: if you've used top-quality hose clamps and fuel line, and used Teflon paste (we like Permatex High Performance Thread Sealant) on all plumbing fittins, you shouldn't have any air, and a looped return will lower the vacuum throughout the whole system by a factor of 4-8, so air leaks are less apt to occur. (On the '99 Benz, the Walbro pumps kicks in only occasionally when looped, v. running almost constantly when un-looped.)

Craig

I love that Permatex thread sealant. It smells nasty, but I have a looped setup on my '84 300D, and I haven't had any problems with air yet.

I have found, however, that giving it the 72 hours to set that it recommends is worth the wait. Also, don't try tightening anything after 4 hours.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MonsieurBon,

Thanks for the hints on looping. I've installed a looped return today and am finding the engine settles to a smoother idle sooner after start up - due no doubt to the quicker heating of the oil. I've not noticed any change in HE output fuel temp.

The other aspect of the HE capacity to heat the oil is the importance of high coolant flow. I understand on Mercedes there is an electric coolant pump to keep coolant moving. Landcruisers have no such fancy additions, but one plausable reason to the fuel temp dropping when the coolant temp rose is that the thermostat on the engine opened more, allowing more coolant to circulate through the radiator and less to flow through the heat exchanger.

Also when the engine is at normal running temperature, there is less temperature differential between the inlet and outlet of the heater lines where I have tee'd into for the HE - therefore less flow.

Sounds like I'll be looking for a coolant pump rather than a fuel pump.

Tim

Just finnished my fist long trip on oil. The FPHE kept the oil at around 160 for the whole time I was running on oil. Thanks omar!

Any photo's of your trip? How many miles did you go? HOw cold was it out side? Did you loop your wvo system? anyway good Job... I am getting ready for another road test to CA. O

The recent 16 plate FPHE I installed on an '83 MB 300D allowed for the addition of 60% vegetable oil to the fuel with no problems on start up even on cold mornings (40*F for us this time of year), and no apparent power loss. It actually seems to run better.

I put a ball valve on the coolant side of the FPHE so the FPHE can be 'shut off' if the need to run diesel only arises.

Thanks Omar,

L8r

Any photo's you could post of your single tank wvo set up? I have a 300TD MB that we are running a blend of 15% rug 85%wvo would like to see your set up thanks Omar