BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) as fuel  Hop To Forums  General SVO Discussion    Polymerization and filter life
Page 1 2 3 

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Polymerization and filter life
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
This is the coldest place in North America [check the record books]. When you work with buildings and equipment at thirty to forty below zero you learn how insulation and heat transfer works. I base my observations and comments on experience. What others choose to do is not my concern. It's not a popularity contest. Believe whatever makes you feel good.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi John,

quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
I live in the coldest place in North America and base my observations on experience.
I believe it would be more accurate to say that you live in "warmest Yukon Territory"
"Whitehorse is the warmest place in the Yukon

You will find that Snag in Canada's Yukon Territory is considered the coldest place in north America
"The remote settlement of Snag in Canada's Yukon Territory holds the title for the coldest officially-recorded spot in North America."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tilly,






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
What makes this forum popular, and just a few other WVO Forums, is the sharing of ideas. My experience with installing or supervising conversions is what I have experienced. I don't justify any info that I post, just what has worked for me and many Greater San Diego Greaser members who have developed on their cars/trucks. I'm not an expert, just an old guy with 10 yrs of WVO experience.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I agree with Dragonfly. However, what works without problems in southern California or Australia won't necessarily work where it gets cold enough to snow half the year. Operating conditions are very important when comparing UVO conversions.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Zamboni.
Looked for references on the 11/29 post as to where you mostly travel through, but couldn't get a bearing for your home base. What is temp is the trk's thermostat? If it is stock, might consider bumping up to the next level temp. On my two BMs, the standard is 80c (172F), so I installed a higher thermostat 82c (179.6F) and changed the stock thermostat on my Chevy C20/Perkins 6-354 ci to 185F) . Might help the trk to get a higher block temp.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
My personal experience with water is that it always gets everywhere, and an escape route should always be provided. I like the idea of closed-cell foam sprayed inside split tubing for protection. I could spin it to orient the slit downwards and provide a drain, avoiding perforations. Or just a few holes at the low points. I do use a lot of gravel roads, so the tubing seems most valuable to me for abrasion and as a form to spray the foam into; the R-value of its thin plastic is pretty small compared to the foam. I may add a reflectix 'belly pan' over the whole thing anyway, to avoid spray and airflow in general. That worked really well on the front half and it's easy to put on.

The truck's thermostat is stock and i just learned a few days ago that a higher-temp one is available. I'm definitely going to swap that in, can see no reason not to. Given the truck's age, the old one may not be far from dead anyhow.

My traveling area is not fixed; i'm currently experimenting with where and when i can find work while still getting to be outdoors as much as i can. That mostly means west of the Mississippi, and i tend to prefer more northern areas, but have been forced south this winter due to both the truck and my trailer not being ready for the temps. I intend to get this sorted out so i can spend some time in the snow next winter and maybe this coming spring. Am very interested in checking out BC.

I've got a centrifuge on the way from PA Biodiesel; i already had a carbonator motor that was gifted to me so this made the most sense, to just get the right pump head for it and use their small 'fuge. Would have preferred open bowl, but couldn't see how to fit one into my limited space on the truck. I'll have to heat it well and do a lot of passes, i guess.


1999 F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
Vegistroke-type SVO conversion
37g. tank in bed
 
Location: Travelling | Registered: July 28, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Zamboni,
If you are interested in a mobile open bowl CF system to fit in the trk's bed, send a PM to me. I have a line drawing and equipt list. I have emassed the following: 2 15 gal. poly tank, 12 DC pump, valves, CF open bowl/AC motor,switches, etc. There are some drawbacks to the high pressure CF system that might be considered for a VO mobile system.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
I like the idea of closed-cell foam sprayed inside split tubing for protection.

Yes, that will work very well. Just avoid having any fittings inside the foam filled tube bundle.
Some include a heat trace cable with the bundle and a silicone pad heater on the insulated FPHE so they can pre-heat the fuel delivery system with plug in power.

https://www.heatersplus.com/pipes.html



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Well, i'm back! This work always takes me so long to complete, usually due to challenges in getting parts on the road and in remote areas.

I'm now centrifuging my WVO using a PA biodiesel unit. I crammed the 'fuge, motor, pump, and bucket into a compact arrangement that fits in the truck's toolbox and can process batches of about 4 gal. at a time. The system needs quite a few improvements but it's definitely no worse than the sock filters, and so far everything passes the HPT with zero bubbles, so i'm finally water-free.

That leaves me trying to ensure the truck is burning the VO properly. I added a temp sensor in the VO fuel line immediately before it splits to supply the two fuel rails. The sensor is physically inside the engine compartment, just under the cowl, with 2 feet of -4AN hose (and a few fittings) between it and the heads. I also added pipe insulation and reflectix throughout the system. Nearly every inch of fuel line between the heads and the FPHE is insulated with closed-cell pipe foam. I know none of this insulation will "add" heat, but now i'm ready to look at my baseline and go from there.

In southern Arizona, ambient 60*F, towing an 8k trailer at 55 mph, overdrive off, RPMs about 2200 on mostly-level ground, the temp sensor at the FPHE reaches steady-state at 180*F. At the same time, the temp sensor in the engine compartment reads 156*F steady-state. I've seen both temps spike higher by 10-15 degrees at times, but never sustained.

I plan to replace the thermostat with the 203*F version - probably time for a new thermostat anyway. I will do that change first (because it's the easiest) and see what it gains me. Next change will be putting the FPHE in parallel, per John Galt. But here's what i wonder: Even if those two changes result in "perfect" FPHE performance and i have 203*F VO exiting the FPHE, based on my current numbers, i'll still only be seeing 179*F at the heads (probably lower). And that's in 60*F weather -- not exactly "coldest NA". I guess what i'm saying is, why fight for 5 or 10 degrees hotter VO at the FPHE, when i'm losing 24*F between there and the engine?

There's not really enough room to add another layer of insulation on the fuel lines. Any ideas how to reduce my heat loss? Should i be looking at a fuel-line heater? It still takes almost 6 miles of driving AFTER switching to VO before temps at the heads climb from 80-ish to 150*F, even if the FPHE is at 180*F when i switch over. It seems like the engine is still getting cold grease for a dozen miles or so on every trip. I don't feel good about that. What about adding an electric fuel-line heater in the engine compartment to help get things up to speed?


1999 F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
Vegistroke-type SVO conversion
37g. tank in bed
 
Location: Travelling | Registered: July 28, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Replying to myself again…this will likely be my final update, because i’m not planning to do much else with this truck (and because this thread is SO dead). Too many other things that need attention, and finding veg. oil while traveling has gotten so hard that it no longer makes sense to even try.

I finally got a chance to add a fuel line heater in the engine compartment. It’s rated 60W @ 12V and is about 12” long, 1.5” wide. It wraps around the outside of the 3/8” fuel line without overlapping itself. I over-wrapped it with electrical tape to keep it tight to the fuel line, and slipped it back into the foam pipe insulation. This is immediately before the VO temp sensor, which in turn is immediately before the Y, which splits to each of the fuel rails. In 70* ambient temps, i drive on diesel until the VO temp sensor on the frame rail (outlet of FPHE) reads 180*. That sensor is at the outlet of the FPHE, immediately before the valve which sends VO up to the engine compartment. The engine-compartment temp sensor is still showing 80* - 90* at this point. The fuel line heater isn’t on yet (that’s just how the CoPilot controller works).

Once i switch to Veg. Oil, hot VO starts flowing up to the engine and the fuel line heater also kicks on. The VO temp starts to climb, and after about 3 miles it hits 160* and i’m feeling happy.

With extended driving (towing the trailer), the engine-compartment sensor maxes out at 180*. I have the fuel line heater set to stay on until VO temp exceeds 190*, but it evidently isn’t enough wattage to do that. So it’s running all the time. I verified that it's drawing just under 5A current so it's working. This is with the thermostat upgraded to a 203* version, and after extended driving the VO temp measured at the frame rail reaches 200* - so the thermostat is working, and the FPHE is working as well as it can, even though i still have not followed John Galt’s advice to plumb it in parallel to the rest of the VO system. I assume that in a colder climate this would be more important, but it still seems to me that i’m losing far more between the exit of the FPHE and the engine’s fuel rails than i’m capable of making up by improving FPHE performance. It could only possibly get 3 degrees hotter.

So, changing the thermostat got me from 180* to 200* at the exit of the FPHE. Before the fuel line heater and the hotter thermostat, my in-engine max temp was 156*. Now it’s 180*, but it’s starting off 20* hotter, too, due to the thermostat (and probably warmer ambients). So it looks like the thermostat helped a lot, while the fuel line heater is only adding maybe 4*. Not a hell of a lot. But it’s easy and only a few bucks, so maybe that’s still worth it.

The couple feet of VO fuel line from the frame rail up to the fuel line heater have some foam insulation, but not every inch. It’s not bundled HOH with the coolant lines, because they have to follow slightly different paths to avoid melting on the turbo downpipe and still go where they need to without kinking. But evidently this is where i’m losing a bunch of heat. Yes, evidently that downpipe right next to the fuel line is just too damn cold... ?!?

I’m really curious if anybody else who has frame-rail located systems is measuring VO temperature in the engine compartment, and if they’re able to keep it above 160* in anything but the most favorable conditions. I’m just not seeing what is so different about my install compared to, for example, a Vegistroke kit. Seems to me that none of those kits could possibly be sending 160* VO to the engine.

I hope this info is useful to someone down the road. Thanks to all the forum members above who have chimed in and provided so much useful feedback! I just wish i could find some damn grease to burn now. Maybe one day i'll settle down and can use this stuff again.


1999 F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
Vegistroke-type SVO conversion
37g. tank in bed
 
Location: Travelling | Registered: July 28, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Just wanted to share how stupid i am:

I put one of these on the Parker push-lok hydraulic line (high pressure VO supply to engine).

It wasn't terribly effective at increasing my pre-injection temperatures but it did a fabulous job of undermining the integrity of the fuel line. Today the line split and sprayed hot VO down the back of my engine compartment for the last dozen miles of my drive home.

Two lessons to learn:
1) Don't put a silicone patch heater directly on your rubber fuel line. Even if it's labeled as a "hydraulic line heater" and your fuel line is indeed hydraulic line bought from a hydraulic shop.
2) Don't skip the check valves on the VO side of the system. I rely on my 3-way valve on the fuel line to prevent diesel from flowing back into the VO side. I skipped the typical "vegistroke"-type check valves at the frame rails because of all the stories about them failing. But because i skipped the check valves, when my fuel line split, i lost pre-injection fuel pressure on BOTH VO and Diesel. It was dumb to not have better isolation between the two fuel systems.


1999 F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
Vegistroke-type SVO conversion
37g. tank in bed
 
Location: Travelling | Registered: July 28, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Don't blame the heater, it merely sped up the degradation process. Hydraulic tube/hose is not resistant to biodiesel or vegoil, especially when it's hot.

Use NAPA/Gates Baricade™ hose for VO based fuels.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
John, thanks for the heads-up, i saw your post just in time to buy the NAPA fuel line instead of hydraulic hose! I sent you a PM with a question about Whitehorse.

The silicone heater is trashed so i'll not have any heat in the engine compartment. VO temps will be fine for the summer, but now i think i'm considering putting in a "real" electric inline fuel heating module before the weather cools down. At least the relay and wiring is already in place Smile

I'd be happy for any suggestions for electric inline heating modules.


1999 F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
Vegistroke-type SVO conversion
37g. tank in bed
 
Location: Travelling | Registered: July 28, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) as fuel  Hop To Forums  General SVO Discussion    Polymerization and filter life

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014