Alright I have been reading the information on this for the last two days straight. I have not even got to drawing up my final designs for the car yet but I think I have the prefilter system that will work best for me done. Anyways, here it is, what do you think? I dont just want people to say its dumb (although you dont find that much on this forum) I would like solutions and ideas to improve this system.



Thanks,
Cort

Dana, do you have a system for the pump to automatically skim the "seperation" barrel so I dont have to sit there while it filters to the storage tank? If so could I buy the designs from you?

The collection barrel will be outside so I will make a pretty good top for it so that it doesnt get too much if any water in there.

It looks like I will need a total of 4 barrels. This would allow me to always keep one at the collection site and the three neccesary at home. I am going to try to keep one spare barrel with 50 gallons in it for spare oil. This would allow me to plan for longer trips. It would also allow for other greasers to stop in and fuel up if they want to drive to the twin cities.

How about putting the pickup to the pump on the underside of a float? The float could pull a micro switch when it hung too low from the top to turn off pump
Danny

Can't remember but my filter material is 5-10 micron, my Racor 500fg filter is 2 micron. I try for finest filtering I could get. You could get by I would think with a finer filter bag than 30 since you are letting it settle a week. Seems like a good system.

I applaud your creativity.

But I see a few problems.

100 micron prefiltering is way too large to expect water to drop out of suspension. So is 30 microns. The majority of particulates are in the 20-10micron range and these need to be removed before water will easily settle.

And that filter screen will tend to clog fairly quickly. I have found that it is much easier to not attempt any filtration at the source site and simply allow settling (in temps where the wvo stasy liquid) and draft off the collected oil leaving the crud that has settled behind at the source site. Occaisionally I need to go round and suck out this accumulated crud/water but I just use the same wco sucker to do this that I use for regular collection.

In temps that do not allow the wvo to stay liquid I bring the whole drum home (with a simple swing crane trailer) and thaw them out to allow them to settle what can settle.

Then I prefilter the settled wvo to 10 microns or better.

Then I heat to settle suspended water.

Then I polish filter.

I do not use Racors..they are overpriced. A goldenrod will accomplish the same thing for 10-25% of the cost of a racor.

Sorry to sound so negative. Just want to pass on what I have learned so you don't have to waste time. You aren't going to sell this design are you?

And yes I do have some designs for skimming the top of settling drums. Not for sale but email me and I can share the basics.

This is sort of similar to the system I have just set up.

first I should ask what you mean by skimming? do you mean just pumping from off the top?

Though I don't have a pic, my system is fairly similar, only major difference being that I only have two barrels, my collection barrel is my settling barrel and both my barrels have water heater elements. Also, instead of an electric pump, just using a barrel pump to take oil from settling barrel and pump to filtering/storage barrel which has 3, 5 micron sock filters. Dana's comments have me a bit concerned, but I think since I also let the oil settle in my main barrel and can burn off in both, I should be ok. For me the 100 micron filter screen isn't because I think it's much of a filter, it's just that lately I have been getting my oil in cubes and those cubes have all kinds of food particles in the bottom that need to somehow be filtered out, so hence the reason for the 100 micron "cleanable" screen. I realize I could just pump off the top after letting them settle, but then I add the additional and time consuming pumping step (my 12v pump is rather slow).

Cort, one comment, I know you aren't taking from the very bottom of collection barrel but I would tend to think that you wlll clog that 30 filter, pretty easily and frequently. The only test is your first hand experience however.

-Tony O

okay here are some updates to the design.

First the collection barrel screen would be basically window screen. Its cleanable and really not filtering anything but huge chunks. It would also be inset in the barrel so that the guys dumping would be able to dump even if it was pretty clogged, it would then slowly drip down to the main barrel.

Second would be to move the valve for drawing off the collection barrel about 3 to 4" off the bottom. That would leave the really crappy stuff behind so that it doesnt clog the 30micron bag right away.

Then add another 10 micron bag after the 30 micron bag. At this point it would be nice to make the bags so that I can clean them, possible in the dishwasher (I think I read somewhere dana knew how to do this, any plans?).

lastly change that racor filter to a goldenrod 2 to 5 micron filter. I have never done this so I will start with a 5 and if its not to my liking I will make it smaller.

Alright here are the new designs for my oil prefilter system. I changed everything that I said I was going to above and I also changed the fuel pump. I did this because I happen to have a almost bran new GM diesel fuel pump and regulator sitting in my garage and figured I would use that cause its cheaper.

Dana, I am not planning on selling this system. If I find others in my area interested in greasin it I am planning on using this as the basis for a co-op. Please do not appologize for being "so negetive", from what I have read you know a lot about this stuff and when I posted I was really interested in reading what your thoughts on improving it were. Everything you said was constructive critisism which is exactly what I want.

Also, did I read somewhere that you sell plans to make filter socks that can be washed in a dishwasher? That would definatly help keep the process cheap. I have a full kitchen in my garage with a dishwasher (I call it a parts washer).

Glad yo utake it for the constructive critisism it is mean to be. I DO sell the washable sock filter how to file for $10. But it is included in both my simple handpump prefilter and higher capacity vacuum prefilter unit how to files $20 for one, $30 for both. Even the simple prefilter unit has been the basis for several co-ops (150 gal per week) and the vacuum prefilter is just a more automated version that can filter twice that much.

Combined with a wvo sucker (free how to file on my website) and a small trailer, it makes a co-op very simple. In very cold climates it may be neccesary to add a simple swing crane to the trailer to load full drums of frozen wvo for thawing and filtering in a garage.

I really think you will save a lot of time and money looking at either one of the prefilter files. I try to keep them modestly priced.

how much room does your system take up dana? I have a very large garage but still dont have enough room. My theory is the more room you have the more junk you store. Anyways, I am sure I could clear out a pretty decent sized area but the smaller the better. Is your system heated at all, my garage is only heated when I am working on it so I assume I would have to heat most of the components of whatever system I decide to install.

The simple handpump prefilter takes up a 3'x 3' area of floorspace and includes an integral 45 gallon resevoir. You can pump directly from it to the tank of your vehicle.

The more automated vacuum prefilter requires another 3'x3' area ...although I have "stacked" the vacuum vessel on top of the prefilter using a steel shelf. You also need room for the prefiltered wvo bulk tank. I usually use a 265 gallon fuel oil tank because they are cheap and plentiful.

I have filted wityh both in a subzero garage. They have internal heates and can be insulated.

I live in MN and had to design all of my equipment and components to deal with sub zero temps.

Farkum,

I still see the same problem. Your 30 micron filter will clog frequently if all you are using is a window screen to keep out large particles. You can probably help address that with longer settling times, but lets say the window screen is 400 microns (its probably larger), that means that anything between that and 30 will plug your filter. I think something like this might be much better though ideally, I would want 100 microns or less.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=20326&product%5Fid=19540#

anyone have a source on something similar with finer micron rating?

This might be a good time to purchase Dana's plans unless you are the type that just likes to expirement.

good luck.
-Tony O

what micron raiting do you think a CHEAP kitchen oil splatter screen is? YOu can get a one foot round one in the US at a dollar store.

If you are paying $1 per foot round then I'd say about 500 micron.

By way of example a Parker 10 micron SS mesh oil filter beaqds water on it rather than passing though and appears as a solid metal sheet to the eye.

If you can see light and just see objects through it then it is at least 100 microns.

If you can clearly see objects then it is at least 200 microns.

quote:

Originally posted by jeepin, moggin Jessup:
what micron raiting do you think a CHEAP kitchen oil splatter screen is? You can get a one foot round one in the US at a dollar store.

From this page
"The mesh number is the number of wires in one inch vertically and one inch horizontally. A 20 mesh therefore has 20 vertical wires per inch and 20 horizontal wires per inch."

So all you have to do is measure a 1 by 1 inch section and count the number of wires, kind of tedious but you will know for certain what the mesh is.

And from this page you can figure out what the resulting mesh to micron size is.

But also take this into account from the first link
"Please note that various wire diameters can be used and a 20 mesh with small diameter wire will have a larger hole and micron rating than a 20 mesh with a larger diameter wire. This is because the actual hole through which the liquid passes will be a square where each side has a dimension of one twentieth of 1" minus 20 x wire diameter."

Hope this helps,
Jason

i would take a look at rosedaleproducts.com and try to copy one of my designs.there are tons of different designs and you should be able to rig somthing up!

danalinscott -

"in temps that do not allow the wvo to stay liquid I bring the whole drum home (with a simple swing crane trailer) and thaw them out to allow them to settle what can settle."

what kind of a trailer are you using ? i have this one and i was wondering if the crane would work on one this small.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/p...t_6970_465468_465468

and did you buy a crane like this one ? or did you build your own ?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_74569_74569

i will need a way to deal with frozen WVO in a few months. trying to get some ideas.

thanks.

On a trailer that light I suspect the wieght of the full drum will simply flip it over when you try to lift it with a swing crane. I made my own crane but it is very similar to the one you linked to...and it was on a much heavier trailer.

You might be able to rig an A-Frame that pivots over the rear of a light trailer and lifts drums with a chain hoist then pivots back over the trailer bed.

Email me for a quick and dirty sketch.