Hi everyone.

I've got a new idea that I wanted to bounce off you guys to see what you think of it.

There has been some discussion in the past comparing TIH systems with HOH systems. The proponents of each plumbing style seem to attack the other style while defending their prefferd style with an almost emotional zeal. I don't want to go and open up that old can of worms again, I think both plumbing styles are good and see advantages to each.

I want your peoples input on this new idea without the discussion going back to a comparisson of the other two styles.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone here has ever considered using the usual 300 series aluminum aircraft fuel line as their veggie line, then instead of feeding down inside the coolant hose, just bundling it with coolant lines the hot IP/injector return line?

I know that this will likely still have slower warm-up time than a TIH system, but it may be easier to install and also prevents a cracked aluminum veggie tube from ever having coolant bleed into the IP. I know there haven't been any reports of coolant getting into IPs from cracked tubing, but the HOH people seem to prefer total prevention over simply trusting the tubing won't ever crack.

The fact that the fuel line wall is aluminum should help expedite thawing/heating the veggie. As well, bundling hoses is thought by some to be easier than assembling TIH. In this case, the the only difference would be that the bundle would be pressed tightly around an aluminum tube rather than a rubber fuel line.

I think that this concept would be a little easier to install than a TIH, but take longer to warm up. I think it would be a little harder to install than a HZOH, but warm up faster.

What say ye?

That is how my truck is set up. Are you trying to remane it to HOT instead of TOH. I consider my HOH. It just has aluminum hose instead of rubber. Mine actually has the heater hose running down one side of the truck and returning on the other side of the truck.

My Aluminum tube is only in contact with one heater hose. I use 3/8 aluminum 300 series tube and I use 5/8 heater hose. The tube going into the filter from the tank gets real hot real quick. I have bipassed the heater so the coolant comes out of the engine--FPHE--Vormax--Tank--Waterpump. Coolant actaully runs along the frame rail to the right side of the tank where the fuel comes out of the tank on the bottom and then goes to the left side of tank to the aluminum coil in the tank and returns along the left side of the truck and returns along the frame rail to the water pump.

Probably more information than needed but it helps me unwind.

Sounds like a good idea to me.
If you put Tubular Polyethylene Foam pipe insulation over the tube/hose bundle you'll get warm-up times close to HIH. It also protects the bundle from dirt and damage.

Hi Maddasher.

quote:

I consider my HOH. It just has aluminum hose instead of rubber

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, but just for the sake of clear comunication, tube simply means tube, while hose actually means hose.

If we start referring to tubing as hose, and calling hose as though it were tubing, simple minded morons like me may get easilly confused... (please be gentle, life is hard enough for me already)



Anyway, I'm really very happy that you replied!

You may be the only SVO greaser on the planet with a setup like that!

How does it perform for you?

Are you satisfied with the results it gives?

quote:

Sounds like a good idea to me.
If you put Tubular Polyethylene Foam pipe insulation over the tube/hose bundle you'll get warm-up times close to HIH. It also protects the bundle from dirt and damage.

Thanx for your input John.

It's funny that you illustrated the foam pipe sheathing. Every time I walk past the water noodle display in WalMart, I look at the various configurations of extruded closed cell foam and wonder which profile would be the best suited to SVO application (whether TIH or HOH).

I know that's ridiculous as the WalMart Water Noodle profiles are very wildly varied and some appear to be about as usefully practical as teats on a bull, but I still wonder anyway... (can't help it)


Does anyone have a clue what the max working temp rating of this polyethylene pipe insulation actually is?

Can it take full load coolant temps without turning to melted goop?

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Can it take full load coolant temps without turning to melted goop?

Yes

Tube on hose is exactly what I installed on my 6.5 Suburban. I live in central FL, and I have a FPHE right after the TOH and before the filter,and temp gauge, so I don't know how hot it's getting it but I haven't had any problems with it. I used 5/8" heater hose, and 3/8" aluminum tubing. Much smaller package than HOH and easy to run since the aluminum will hold it's shape somewhat.

I use an insulation to bundle mine that I got from an Ace hardware store. It looks the size of a noodle. Works great. It is nice having the stiff aluminum and the aluminum is cheaper. I am actually a big user of pex line in a HIH situation but that is usually on Mercedes.

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Tube on hose is exactly what I installed on my 6.5 Suburban. I live in central FL, and I have a FPHE right after the TOH and before the filter,and temp gauge, so I don't know how hot it's getting it but I haven't had any problems with it. I used 5/8" heater hose, and 3/8" aluminum tubing. Much smaller package than HOH and easy to run since the aluminum will hold it's shape somewhat.

Hi B.K.

How did you attach the tubing to your HE?

Hosebarbs are easy enough to attach, but tubing seems somewhat different.

Obviously, hosebarbs & metal tubing don't go together.

I was thinking of flaring the tubing like brake line, rather than using a ferrule type compression fitting.

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quote:
Can it take full load coolant temps without turning to melted goop?

Yes

That's good.

Have you verified that somehow? (are you using it yourself maybe?)

If it's the same foam material that people have been wrapping HEs with, then it must be okay with coolant temps.

quote:

How did you attach the tubing to your HE?

Hosebarbs are easy enough to attach, but tubing seems somewhat different.

Obviously, hosebarbs & metal tubing don't go together.

I was thinking of flaring the tubing like brake line, rather than using a ferrule type compression fitting.

IMHO it's very important to vibration isolate all hard components including metallic fuel lines with sections of flexible hose. This is especially important in the high vibration environment of diesel vehicles as it is in aircraft.
Use a section of hose between the tube and the FPHE.

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Have you verified that somehow? (are you using it yourself maybe?)

yes, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.

Yes, I use a little piece of rubber hose between the hard line and the hose nipple on the HE.

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IMHO it's very important to vibration isolate all hard components including metallic fuel lines with sections of flexible hose. This is especially important in the high vibration environment of diesel vehicles as it is in aircraft.
Use a section of hose between the tube and the FPHE.

Interesting advice, JG!

So now maybe I should forgo buying a tubing bender in favour of adding some extra fittings to accomodate the vibration isolation while using the hose to make sharp bends...



P.S. Do you think it's really necessary to add sections of vibration isolating hose to the tubing line even if the entire bundle is VERY well secured? (Securely attached to the frame/body every 12" or so)

I don't remember reading about anyone else adding sections of hose to TIH systems, so I'm not sure that HOT systems really need it either. More breaks in the lines = more chances for leaks...

A section of hose for vibration isolation between the tube and the FPHE, another hose section between the tube and the tank. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

If you hard mount the tube and the tank is hard mounted and the filter is hard mounted vibration is not an issue. My tank is in the bed and filter in the engine bay but they are all mounted to the body and frame.

The attachment point is with flare fittings. Aluminum tube flares really easily and the fittings are the same price as hose barb. They are actually cheaper is you count not having to buy a hose clamp or two or four which I have seen.

My system has zero hose clamps. The rubber fuel line that runs from the FPHE (mounted on the body) to the lift pump (mounted on the engien) is rubber 3/8 Gates Lock On hose. This is attached with Push Lock fittings. The hose is called LOL for Lock On and was designed to work with these pushlock fittings. I Just finished installing a 5/8 heater hose on the outside of the 3/8 hose and then I wrapped it with insulation and electrical tape so that it would not "cool down" on the highway. The return line that goes from the engine to the return valve is also rubber and I insulated that also.
Everything else is aluminum. Those are insulated where needed also.

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fuel line that runs from the FPHE (mounted on the body) to the lift pump (mounted on the engien) is rubber 3/8 Gates Lock On hose

Yes, that's the sort of critical vibration isolation I was speaking to.

I'm using the aluminum-on-hose too.. aircraftspruce.com sells 3/8" OD for 60c/ft if you buy a roll of 50ft. Bends easy with bare hands.
I used compression fittings on the ends (to attach to short sections of parker pushlok hose), but if i did it again I would use flares. I had to re-do a number of compression joints, they seem delicate

I will try the foam pipe insulation before winter hits!

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quote:
fuel line that runs from the FPHE (mounted on the body) to the lift pump (mounted on the engien) is rubber 3/8 Gates Lock On hose

Yes, that's the sort of critical vibration isolation I was speaking to.

Yes, I see that it makes sense to at least isolate the aluminum tubing from where the end of the overall line connects to the engine.

Originally, I kinda thought that because this 3000 series tubing is so soft, that as long as I secured the bundle to the bottom of my truck every 12" or so, that there might not be any need to add rubber sections, but now I remember seeing engines rock and vibrate considerably when the hood was open and the throttle was depressed. Putting repeated engine vibration stress against even soft mushy tubing like the 3000 series stuff isn't a good idea.

I'll certainly use a chunk of hose to isolate vibration between the engine and the main tubing line. My other components (HE, SVO filter, SVO pump, Valves and vegie tank) will all be bolted down securely to the frame, so I'm thinking they will likely be okay.

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I'm using the aluminum-on-hose too..

Wow, I wonder how many people are doing their plumbing like this?

Before I started this thread, I wasn't aware of anyone doing it.