Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?

I have 16 cubes. Most have settled for months. The top 1/3 is heavy liquid oil, the bottom 1/3 is very-very thick (solidifying) and the middle third is part liquid, part thick.

At about 95-100F the thick part begins to turn to liquid.

Yesterday I experimented by mixing pure diesel and the thickest part of the oil, 50/50 in a small bowl. I stired it up and then let it sit in the sun to warm up. Everything fully melted to a liquid state. Then left it overnight to settle and cool. This morning at 75F, it was still 99% liquid. Just a hint of tiny solids.

So I'm guessing that it is safe to use this stuff in the car as long as I mix it with Diesel first.

BTW, out of curiosity, I also did the same experiment with Crisco and Diesel. Amazingly enough, the Crisco did not return to a solid state at all at 75F.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Michael

Hi and welcome to the forums. Creamy shortening is also called partially hydrogenated oil (PHO). If you run a heated 2 tank setup that heats to 160-180F, PHO is fine. This means heated pickup, heated lines and filter, and a FPHE (flat plate heat exchanger.) I use it about half the time, even in cold CO winters, with no blending and no problems.

If you are talking about single tank blending (in your stock tank), that can be very risky with PHO. Even if it doesn't separate in your tank, it still can be too thick and damage your IP or not spray properly or plug your filters. You can read more about that in the "solvent thinning" part of these forums.

Its what they use at the restuarant I get my oil from. I try to get only the oily stuff but occasionally suck up the creamy stuff. In my gravity feed filtering setup I have the bedsheet I use as first layer seems to get most of it, with rest being caught by filter felt. I feel if any does get through it will get heated up by returning oil to fuel tank. If your system incorporates enough heat in various areas you could run straight lard in my opinion.

After tons of reading on this forum, other forums and several books, I decided to create my own 2 tank conversion. Heated lines and filter but not an in-tank heater.

I just recently completed it and thought the best option for the shake down trial run was to buy salid oil from Sams Club - definately all liquid, no solids. Worked like a charm, though I only have about 100 miles since the conversion. Yesterday was my first experience with dealing with the used oil. Without an in-tank heater, I will be very cautious about using the settled portion of PHO without mixing with Diesel to disolve the solids.

Michael

You should put a VO temp guage on your rig, or use an infrared one to check the temp right before your IP. Without a FPHE you may not be getting your VO hot enough (160F), which could cause you problems long term. It also helps if you put your vehicle in your signature since what you need varies greatly depending on that.

Sorry about the lack of signature. Simply forgot since I've been reading this forum for months but have not submitted anything.

I converted an 83 Mercedes 300DT. I'm using the original tank for SVO and a marine tank for Diesel. Since I live in AZ, I did not put a heater inside the SVO tank but I am heating the line as soon as it exits from the bottom of the tank.

I did include a temp guage but I placed the sensor on the return line right before it connects back to the engine. Therefore this reading would be lower that you would expect due to natural cooling over a distance and exposure to air under the car.

The heater line is routed to heat the SVO line from where it goes into the IP first and then to the back of the car. Also, when running SVO, the return line is routed back into the SVO feed line to make the best use of the retuning hot SVO. I know the line is too hot to touch but I do not know what the temp is. I do not have an infrared guage.

Just from reading I can see that you are not providing enough heat to your oil and can, over time, cause even the MZB problems. If I were in your case, I would only use liquid oil, no PHO. Also, I would make sure to change your lube oil often, or at least check it for veg-oil.

What you really need is more heat, maybe a FPHE just before the IP.

As I admit, I do not have a temp reading as the SVO enters the IP.

Please correct if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine I need more heat at the IP end. Radiator coolant exiting the engine is normally about 180F and it is routed directly to within a foot of the IP to heat the SVO. That means that there is only one foot of exposed hose that is not continuously heated before the SVO enters the IP. How could a FPHE heat better or closer to the IP. I think the only way to add more heat at that close range is to heat each injection line.

On the other hand, to use PHO, I would need to add heat to tank itself. In short term, I have decided to siphon off the top liquid of the cubes for immediate use and leave the bottom creamy portion for later experiments. Mixing the creamy PHO with Diesel in a dish shows promissing results that might works fine during the summer months. But I want to do some more experiments before I start using that portion.

You still haven't described your setup enough to know if you have enough heat. If you have only hose-on-hose, thats not enough to get to 160F. What temp is your return measuring? It would not be much lower. I would move the temp guage to before the IP where it matters most.

most of my WVO supply is the creamy stuff. I can only guess it's cheaper for restraunts to buy.

But it still seemd to end up pretty clear and golden if you let it settle for a while. I guess the repeated heating of the deep fryer cycle kinda "de-hydrogenats" it over time????

The empty jugs of PHO have creamy goo in the bottoms...but when I get the used oil from the same place, it's dark, but mostly clear.

My father found a method of de-hydrogenation by accident. He was trying to get the last bit of margarine out of the squeeze bottle so he put it in the microwave for 2-3 seconds. the gel becomes a thin liquid and does not reharden when refrigerated. I looked at the ingredients and it's mostly hydrogenated corn oil.

I havn't tried a large sample of creamy shortening to see if it's the microwaves that does it or just the high temps that were achieved by the few drops in 2-3 seconds. But it's not that hot when it comes out, can still hold the bottle.
I am somewhat concerned that doing this large scale would create an explosion hazard due to the release of hydrogen. Just an idea, I havn't had a chance to get an old microwave and put a plastic coil in it for testing. Gotta be carefull with high power microwave energy if you plan on having kids!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Smartfly10:
My father found a method of de-hydrogenation by accident. He was trying to get the last bit of margarine out of the squeeze bottle so he put it in the microwave for 2-3 seconds. the gel becomes a thin liquid and does not reharden when refrigerated. I looked at the ingredients and it's mostly hydrogenated corn oil.

Margarine is both hydrogenated and aerated. The heating from the microwave is just separating the air. Theoretically, a microwave may make the oil slightly more hydrogenated.

So I take it that nobody here uses the creamy stuff in their car?

After settling for months, I've siphoned liquid oil off the top and filtered it with no problems (without heating). Now I'm left with the creamy stuff, which is about half the cube. Though it will begin to melt simply be placing the cube in the sun, I have real concern about using it.

Re-read my post above:

quote:

Originally posted by SunWizard:
I use it about half the time, even in cold CO winters, with no blending and no problems.

I use PHO in my Benz, though I use the clear VO in my TDI as that is the winter car. As long as it is well heated, I find that PHO works well as fuel. However, I don't think it is a candidate for sub-par conversions (as far as heat goes) or for blending with solvents.

The most difficul part in my opinion is filtering it as it is still creamy even at summer temps. here in VT, so it has to be heated to filter. I'm working on a solar cubie heater (for 6-8 cubes) so I can heat the PHO/fat sludge for filtering. I am also experimenting with reacting the sludge into biodiesel right in the cubes, and then either composting or disposing of the glycerine byproduct.

I have also experimented (as have others) with combining the sludge with wood chips/shavings, making it into burritos with newspaper wrappers and then burning it in a woodstove/furnace. It works quite well as long as the fire is hot.

I have used PHO (and solid grease before that) since the early 80's. You have to settle and dewater with the oil hot enough to melt the creamy part.