quote:

Originally posted by sinbad:
The thing with taxes is they need to be cheap to collect, if a government has to spend a dollar to collect a dollar in tax it is obviously a crappy tax. Checking how many miles someone does in a year seems a pretty expensive exercise. It would be much cheaper to tax the fuel as it leaves the refinery or tanker. That seems to be the method most countries use.

Yeah,
I wonder about a lot of taxes....
Paying people to man toll booths 24 hrs / day.

Paying someone to drive around and make sure people have paid their parking meters.

Paying someone to sit in the booth in a parking structure that gives first hour free parking and accepts parking vouchers.

Note, I avoid shopping "downtown" because of the parking hassles and because I hate paying parking meters. Poor parking programs cost the businesses there customers and money.

I'd hate to see how many billions of dollars a year are spent to support the current tax structure in the USA. Add in the time it takes for everyone in the USA to fill out their income taxes. And, the cost for tax preparation (tax deductible, of course). And time/money for tax related accounting & record keeping.

H&R Block showed $3 Billion gross income for their "Tax Services" last year (I think), and they are just one company that preys on the complexity of the tax structure. More for other services they perform that may be related to taxes.
http://www.marketwire.com/pres...YSE-HRB-1010765.html

The thing that gets me with road taxes is that the Motorist pays fpr not only the use of the roads, but every other stupid Govmint waste as well.

About 15 years ago they introduced the 3x3 tax here and promoted and advertised it like it was a gift to the people and we should all be celebrating it's introduction. It was 3 cents per litre for 3 years in addition to all the other taxes.

What was this tax's claim to such fame??
the entire 3 cents per litre ( out of .60C+ we pay here per litre would be spent on roads!

Made one wonder what the hell the other .60C was being spent on and why a tax on top of other taxes was being levied to support the very thing it was being levied upon!
Of course at the end of the 3 years the guvamint declared this tax a great success ( how could it have failed?) and decided to go another 3 years. at the end of that term, against flushed by the billions they had collected, they put the tax into perpetuity and upped it to .5C per litre.

Of course Australian roads are still famous among Himalayan Yak herders for being better than the roads they have, but not by much.
Pretty much any new road that gets built these days is a toll way so you get to pay 3 times for using the road. Because of our GST system here intorduced about 10 years back, we have a tax on a tax (taxes and excise in the value of a litre of fuel then having GST lumped on it) which is against our constitution but the only people with the money to take the govamint on over it are the oil companies and it isn't in their favor to do so thus the anomaly remains.

I don't mind paying for road use and the benefits that come from that but I do take objection to being undeniably over taxed and that money going to other things that should be taxed by the users of those facilities and benefits.
One thing that really burns me with all this fell good save the planet malarky is that all new Govamint roads now have to have cycleways as well. Typically these Cycleways cost almost the same as the road thanks to the cycle ways being mandated to have to be so far away from the road, having special barriers that will stop a fully laden B double truck doing 150 from getting onto the cycleway, special lighting, water stops.... You name it.

Govamint studies show that on the most popular cycle way in Sydney, less than 130 cyclists a day use it after nearly 4 years yet the traffic on the road has a continually falling average speed and longer jams and delays.

As far as I am concerned, if the Cyclists want a road of their own to pedal along on feeling good about saving the planet when it isn't too hot or cold or wet ( when surveys find they take the car, surprise surprise,) they should pay for it with tolls and taxes themselves, not put the burden on the motorists who are already supporting themselves and more with the taxes they pay.

Many people mistakenly believe that fuel taxes are "road taxes". That's not the case in many jurisdictions; it depends entirely how the tax regulations are written. In some jurisdictions it's probably quite legal for the fuel taxes to go into general revenue. Some people might not think this is 'fair'; unfortunately the world is not necessarily 'fair' by default.

In Canada the provincial/territorial fuel taxes go into general revenue, while the federal fuel tax is accounted separately and a large portion of it is returned to municipalities specifically for infrastructure improvements and maintenance.

If someone does not like how the fuel tax is spent then they can join the large group of lobbyists who are constantly trying to influence how the government spends tax revenue. I'm certainly not suggesting that all tax systems are fair and just, however those are issues for people to deal with in their own specific jurisdictions. Most of us live in quasi democracies where our vote and voice is supposed to influence public spending. If you don't like it, then work to change it; complaining about it is a useless exercise.

My personal opinion we are taxed to death, it is theft. It stifles business and innovation and investment.

Americans pay between $.32 and $.40 per dollar in direct and indirect taxes. Capital gains is often as much as 32% on top of that - don't ask me how I know.

This means on average that you will retain about two-thirds of your income while paying the other one-third in taxes. If you are a land owner this does not include your property taxes.

What do I get for this? Barely anything. I get to drive on the roads, I get police services - which mostly serve to harass good citizens. I pay directly for everything else - tuition for my children's schooling, I have my own paid for health care - really tell me what all this taxation does for me?

Barely anything. It's against the principles laid forth by the founding fathers of the United States - and it is unfair. It's taxation without representation - seriously - have you ever tried to call the Capitol switchboard to get through to your nominally "elected" Congressperson? Or Senator? 9/10 you can't even get through. And when you do they vote however the hell they want to anyway.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people...

Americans pay one of the lowest tax rates in the world, yet have one of the highest standards of living.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day
Total taxes are less than the 33% factoid you seem to believe.
For Americans, there is a "Personal Tax Freedom Day Calculator" at mytaxfreedomday.com that will estimate your personal Tax Freedom Day based on a variety of variables.

Since a huge proportion of America's budget goes to "Defense" then you might want to consider that your continuing freedom is one of those things you get from your taxes. Americans also have some of the lowest fuel prices in the world, again due to the US tax structure.

If you think you pay too much in taxes then go live in India, or any of the 3rd world countries where taxes are lower. If you did, I suspect you would soon realize what a good deal you get for the low taxes you pay.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:
Americans pay one of the lowest tax rates in the world, yet have one of the highest standards of living.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day
Total taxes are less than the 33% factoid you seem to believe.
For Americans, there is a "Personal Tax Freedom Day Calculator" at mytaxfreedomday.com that will estimate your personal Tax Freedom Day based on a variety of variables.

Since a huge proportion of America's budget goes to "Defense" then you might want to consider that your continuing freedom is one of those things you get from your taxes. Americans also have some of the lowest fuel prices in the world, again due to the US tax structure.

If you think you pay too much in taxes then go live in India, or any of the 3rd world countries where taxes are lower. If you did, I suspect you would soon realize what a good deal you get for the low taxes you pay.

Since my last post got moderated and will never see the light of day because of colorful language I will say this:

The US is a sovereign nation, the tax structures of other countries and where it stands tax wise is not subject to your opinion. If you don't live here be quiet. Most people of the Leberty minded folks like myself who have a problem with taxes (no we're not Republicans) also feel our defense budget is out of control and that we should pull all of our military resources from all countries on the globe into our borders - this is the "no foreign entanglements" thing.

If other countries' denizens are happy with their tax structures that's their own business.

As far as you repeatedly telling me to to live elsewhere - I'd rather not - I'd rather fix my nation which is the US - I've bled for it - and will continue to speak out about the tax system all I want to.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,

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I find it pretty funny

Yes, I'm always amused by the misconceptions of Canada that so many Americans believe as true. But then most can't find their own state on a map much less other countries, so the ignorance of life outside America is quite understandable. Having lived and worked in both countries, I know from experience that there is far more personal freedom and far less 'big brotherism' in Canada than America. Don't believe everything you think.

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:

quote:

I find it pretty funny

Yes, I'm always amused by the misconceptions of Canada that so many Americans believe as true. But then most can't find their own state on a map much less other countries, so the ignorance of life outside America is quite understandable. Having lived and worked in both countries, I know from experience that there is far more personal freedom and far less 'big brotherism' in Canada than America. Don't believe everything you think.

No doubt Canada is pretty cool - particularly when you get in to the Northern Terrotories. But to think that you have more Liberty - well - you may up there, but not because TPTB want you to - it's just mostly because it's hard to have the stupid bureaucracy reach up there. The laws are still there that make you less free. Anyway enjoy your life.

quote:

Anyway enjoy your life.

Yeah, you too.

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:

quote:

Anyway enjoy your life.

Yeah, you too.

Every meal is a feast, every paycheck a fortune and every day - a celebration! Damn I love being an American.