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A small electric flash evaporator to dewater WVO.
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Ran the evaporator again, trying to figure out the "no steam" situation. Looks like the stream of oil needs to actualy hit a solid surface to release steam. The reason I got steam for the first several minutes was because there was no oil in the collection pot at the beginning and the solid stream of oil was hitting the metal bottom of the pot and releasing steam. Once the pot filled with a bit of oil the stream was squirting directly into the oil. It did churn the oil quite a bit but no steam was being directly released. I don't know where the water was going but the oil tested "dry" using the frypan bubble method ??

I would definitly prefer to see steam released. Today I made up a small sheetmetal piece for the oil stream to hit. This is just a 2 inch wide piece of tin bent at a 45 degree angle and clamped to the inside of the collection pot about 4 inches below the orifice. The stream hits the top side of the 45 degree slope and instantly releases steam. The hot oil just drips off the edge of the tin into the pot but the steam squirts off at all angles. The "hiss" given off by the steam is constantly changing as is the amount and angle of the steam being released, depends on the amount of water in the oil at any one instant. The area where the stream hits the surface also increases and decreases in diameter (1/8 inch to 1/2 inch) as more or less steam is being released,

-- This seems to solve this problem, oil stream needs to impinge on a solid surface to insure the release of the superheated water as steam --

Was reading this site and forgot I was dewatering oil and actualy overflowed the 15 gallon collection pot a bit -- At least I have some dry oil now.


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92 dodge cummins with over 260,000 miles. Running an unheated 50% diesel/50% WVO blend for about the last 75,000 miles when temps above 50 deg f, no modifications or heating except the addition of a throw-away in-line fuel filter (removed during cold weather).
As of 8-01-05 I have been testing a 75% WVO/15% gasahol (90% RUG/10% ethanol)/10% diesel blend. Works fine down to about 65 f then starts rough. Runs ok once engine warms up. Back to a 50/50 diesel blend sence 9-15-05, just to cool now. -- 11-01-05 Modified stock fuel tank internal fuel pickup to have I.D. of 3/8 inch, this eliminated cold start slow idle and bogg on acceleration. Now adding 1 ounce each of acetone and pure gum spirits of turpentine to each 5 gallons of any blend, seems to help keep the fats in solution to a lower temperature --Heated 2nd tank fuel system installed january 2010, now running on a heated blend of 90% veg/5% diesel/5% RUG (no acetone or turpentine, heat replaced these).
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just a word about orifice clogging. -- Unfortunatly this does happen but so far only when I first start the unit up cold. Once it is up to temp the orifice has never clogged over any of the multi-hour periods the prototype has been operated.

I now remove the orifice and flush a pint or so of cold oil through the unit before turning on the heat. There are quite a bunch of pinhead sized flakes of almost clear gellitin looking stuff that flushes out of the heater pipe. I usualy have to remove the orifice and flush the heater 3-4 times at startup. The orifice will plug in the first second of trying to apply pressure to the oil. I have had plug-ups even shortly after heat is applied, makes it sort of interesting to unscrew and clean the HOT orifice. I use compressed air to do the cleaning.

Once everything gets cleared out I have not had any plug-ups, don't know if the "gellitin" flakes melt with the heat or if they just finaly clear out of the heater pipe. It seems these flakes are being created in the residual heat of the heater after the flow is stopped, may try a different shutdown technique to see if I can eliminate this problem.

In researching oil fired furnace burners I have seen cleanable ceramic high-temp filters designed to go in-line just before the furnace burner nozzle. The evaporator environment is not as extreme as in a burner so these should work just fine if placed just prior to the orifice. They would eventualy need cleaning but it should take several start/stop cycles before this is required. I will research these filters again.

This was a problem I was sorta anticipating so I intend to place a 1/4 inch pipe coupler just before the orifice so that the entire top of the flash tank including the orifice and feed pipe can be easily removed by unscrewing the pipe coupler and 3 wing nuts. The entire flash tank top cover and orifice will just lift up and off the tank to allow access so the orifice can be unscrewed and cleaned.


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92 dodge cummins with over 260,000 miles. Running an unheated 50% diesel/50% WVO blend for about the last 75,000 miles when temps above 50 deg f, no modifications or heating except the addition of a throw-away in-line fuel filter (removed during cold weather).
As of 8-01-05 I have been testing a 75% WVO/15% gasahol (90% RUG/10% ethanol)/10% diesel blend. Works fine down to about 65 f then starts rough. Runs ok once engine warms up. Back to a 50/50 diesel blend sence 9-15-05, just to cool now. -- 11-01-05 Modified stock fuel tank internal fuel pickup to have I.D. of 3/8 inch, this eliminated cold start slow idle and bogg on acceleration. Now adding 1 ounce each of acetone and pure gum spirits of turpentine to each 5 gallons of any blend, seems to help keep the fats in solution to a lower temperature --Heated 2nd tank fuel system installed january 2010, now running on a heated blend of 90% veg/5% diesel/5% RUG (no acetone or turpentine, heat replaced these).
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I wonder if you could just agitate the oil or just direct the spray into the pool of oil at the bottom? Wonder if that would give it enough "whatever it is" to release the steam.
 
Registered: July 25, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I wonder also, the last 15 gallons of oil that I dewatered did just spray into the pool of hot oil, seems to have remover the water somehow ? did frypan bubble testing and got NO bubbles so the water went someplace ? I did notice that it was way more humid close to the unit than just a couple steps away so the water was somehow being reliesed ?

I prefer to actualy see and hear the steam reliesed as it creates enough pressure to insure that the steam will flow out of the flash tank and into the steam condensing tank. Still testing ..


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92 dodge cummins with over 260,000 miles. Running an unheated 50% diesel/50% WVO blend for about the last 75,000 miles when temps above 50 deg f, no modifications or heating except the addition of a throw-away in-line fuel filter (removed during cold weather).
As of 8-01-05 I have been testing a 75% WVO/15% gasahol (90% RUG/10% ethanol)/10% diesel blend. Works fine down to about 65 f then starts rough. Runs ok once engine warms up. Back to a 50/50 diesel blend sence 9-15-05, just to cool now. -- 11-01-05 Modified stock fuel tank internal fuel pickup to have I.D. of 3/8 inch, this eliminated cold start slow idle and bogg on acceleration. Now adding 1 ounce each of acetone and pure gum spirits of turpentine to each 5 gallons of any blend, seems to help keep the fats in solution to a lower temperature --Heated 2nd tank fuel system installed january 2010, now running on a heated blend of 90% veg/5% diesel/5% RUG (no acetone or turpentine, heat replaced these).
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Tim, I've got an idea to bounce off you in this subject also:
I know you are working on a mobile flash evaporator but I'm more interested in a stationary. I have a 125 gallon propane tank that would be a great batch size for me. I was thinking of filling the tank with wvo then pressurizing the whole tank to about 145 psi. I choose 145 psi because I can tweak a 150 psi compressor and get a good constant 145 psi at the regulator. This would be my pressurized oil supply for the flash evaporator. I got my thermostatic control finally.
Do you see any obvious down sides to doing it this way?
Thanks
-Richard


2002 Excursion 4 x 4 with a 7.3 liter powerstroke and Several diesel trucks and equipment associated with the arborist field.
 
Location: Bonnieville, Kentucky | Registered: June 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Somewhere on this forum I think I have seen a nice flash tank made from heavy steel. Maybe one of Johno's projects.
Thinking of this I wondered about running the stream of oil into the tank at a tangent to the axis so the oil would flow around the circumference of the tank thereby thinning out and making release of the water from the thin sheet of oil easy. Think of a materials handling cyclone.

The bottom of the tank would have a valve to keep a level of oil in the bottom of the tank. There could be a valve on the top where the steam exits to regulate the pressure in the tank. Steam could be routed away to a heat exchanger for incomming oil and then a drain. Hot oil would also have heat reclaimed.

At low flows the tank dia may be only a few inches and a foot or two in height.(educated guess) An orifice may be used to regulate flow but I suspect a gate valve would work if sized reasonably close to full open.

Ken
 
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada | Registered: April 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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mcguyver -- Actualy trying to set up a stationary evaporator first, then I will try to adapt it to mobile use.

Pressurizing the tank should work ok. I don't see any problems with it, I would want to set up the plumbing with valves to allow you to shut off the pressurized oil and then be able to depressurize the heater pipe so you could pull the orifice for cleaning.


KenL -- From watching the stream hit the bottom of the pot or the piece of tin it seems to release all the steam within a 1/2 inch at most from the point of impact. I think once you cause a disturbance to the superheated water it just sorta all explodes into steam, same princaple as can happen when water is heated above the boiling point in a microwave but does not actualy boil until you disturb it with a spoon, then it boils all at once.

I have considered squirting the stream from the orifice horizontally across the flash tank and letting it crash into the other side of the tank. I think this would work ok but I have not figures an easy way to plumb this to allow easy removal of the orifice for unclogging. By mounting the orifice vertically through the top cover it allows the easy removal of the complete top cover and orifice.

Using valve as orifice -- This works, I originally did this on the prototype. Problem I had was that the opening would change as the valve heated up and also would just unexpectidly change on its own, this required that a person be present to monitor the valve. By using a fixed orifice and controlling the heat using a thermostat the unit self-controls so you don't have to watch it as closely. Once I add the oil pressure regulator system then even if the orifice were to plug up completely there would not be a problem, the pressure regulator would not allow the pressure to get any higher and the thermostat would not let the temperature get any higher.

Valve in tank to keep level of oil -- If you fit the side of the tank with a gooseneck style outlet you don't need the valve, the oil level will always be at the same level as the outlet opening in the tank. I intend to have the bottom 1/2 of the flash tank full of hot oil (there will also be a drain outlet in the very bottom to empty the tank). I will weld a short piece of 1/4 inch pipe through the side of the tank at the point where I want the top of the oil to be. Inside the tank I will add an elbow pointing down, then add a piece of pipe into this elbow with the length cut so the bottom end of this is about an inch above the bottom of the tank. This will allow only oil from close to the bottom of the tank to go up and out the opening but no oil will exit until the level of the oil in the tank reaches the same height as the exit hole (roughly, exact level will depend on internal tank pressure). Even if the oil is pressurized a bit there will still be only oil exiting this outlet even if the pressure causes the level of oil in the tank to drop a couple inches below the height of the oil outlet. On the outside end of the oil outlet pipe I will add a "T", the bottom of the "T" will be the dry oil outlet, I will screw a pipe plug into the top of the "T" but there will be a 1/16 inch hole driller through this plug to act as a siphon break, this will keep oil from being drawn out of the tank because of a vacuum buildup (siphon effect) in the dry oil outlet line. Sence the steam can not easily excape through this oil outlet it should follow the path of least resistance and flow across into the condensing tank where the end of the steam pipe will only be an inch or so below the surface of the hot water. I hope all this theorizing works.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
92 dodge cummins with over 260,000 miles. Running an unheated 50% diesel/50% WVO blend for about the last 75,000 miles when temps above 50 deg f, no modifications or heating except the addition of a throw-away in-line fuel filter (removed during cold weather).
As of 8-01-05 I have been testing a 75% WVO/15% gasahol (90% RUG/10% ethanol)/10% diesel blend. Works fine down to about 65 f then starts rough. Runs ok once engine warms up. Back to a 50/50 diesel blend sence 9-15-05, just to cool now. -- 11-01-05 Modified stock fuel tank internal fuel pickup to have I.D. of 3/8 inch, this eliminated cold start slow idle and bogg on acceleration. Now adding 1 ounce each of acetone and pure gum spirits of turpentine to each 5 gallons of any blend, seems to help keep the fats in solution to a lower temperature --Heated 2nd tank fuel system installed january 2010, now running on a heated blend of 90% veg/5% diesel/5% RUG (no acetone or turpentine, heat replaced these).
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here is the "Pigulater" or "Pigoil perculator"
 
Location: west of the black stump (sometimes) | Registered: September 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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thanks for the link, I replied over there about your pigulator.


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If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
 
Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This thread seems to have have died down unfortunately

here is some information on nozzle sizes and flow rates at different pressures I got from a pressure washer parts catalougue.

In fairness to using thier information I also include thier prices and contact details.

There will be three pics which might need three posts

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Things have changed here while I have been gone

The paperclip I used to use to attach pictures has gone and been replaced by the add attachment qestion below this text box.

Now the pics don't come up directly in the message but show as a link

Oh well expect this was gone over when it happend yonks ago so I'll shut up now and attach another pic

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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last one


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication


ImageNozzle_suppliers.jpg (34 Kb, 56 downloads) supplier contact details
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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The table nominally covers from 2l per min to 161l per min at pressures from 2 bar to 20 bar.

They do do smaller nozzles and larger orifice nozzles than those in the table and you should be able to use the table as a guide to calculate the flow you would get at your pressures from a given size of nozzle. Indeed to calculate the size of nozzle that would give the flow you want from the conditions you want to set.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have found that Mcmaster-carr has a selection of orifice plugs made from standard pipe plugs of different types, sizes and material. $6.00 -$9.00 depending - I intend to order a couple of these for further testing.

They also have a nice 400 degree capable small cleanable ceramic filter that should eliminate the orifice plugging problem. Comes with a 25 micron filter but several other ratings are available. Had a tiny metal sliver clog the orifice yesterday, ruined the very thin SS orifice plate attempting to remove the sliver. Salvage yard saved the day again , several gas water heaters there today.

Dried about 15 gallon of realy wet oil yesterday, the cover blew off my filter tank during a rain storm so I emulsified several gallons of water into clean oil because the filter pump was circulating the oil. I let this settle for a week but only had a couple inches of clear oil on top (seems my water washing technique of cleaning oil NEEDS the water absorbing food particals to cause settling), everything else was peanutbutter colored, LOTS of water. Got a LOT of steam but the oil in dry..

Placed a piece of plywood over the cooking pot I was flashing the oil into as a test to see how the steam excaped, left a small area open. Not as much steam came out of the smaller opening as was excaping from the uncovered pot but I still did not see any water condensing inside the pot or on the underside of the plywood ? I think I will add a small squirrel cage blower to the final vapor output of the second water condensing tank to create just a slight vacuum inside the condenser and flashtank to help evacuate the steam -- more testing.

Working on a 2-tank heated system for the truck before cold weather so this evaporator project is sorta on hold for a bit.


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92 dodge cummins with over 260,000 miles. Running an unheated 50% diesel/50% WVO blend for about the last 75,000 miles when temps above 50 deg f, no modifications or heating except the addition of a throw-away in-line fuel filter (removed during cold weather).
As of 8-01-05 I have been testing a 75% WVO/15% gasahol (90% RUG/10% ethanol)/10% diesel blend. Works fine down to about 65 f then starts rough. Runs ok once engine warms up. Back to a 50/50 diesel blend sence 9-15-05, just to cool now. -- 11-01-05 Modified stock fuel tank internal fuel pickup to have I.D. of 3/8 inch, this eliminated cold start slow idle and bogg on acceleration. Now adding 1 ounce each of acetone and pure gum spirits of turpentine to each 5 gallons of any blend, seems to help keep the fats in solution to a lower temperature --Heated 2nd tank fuel system installed january 2010, now running on a heated blend of 90% veg/5% diesel/5% RUG (no acetone or turpentine, heat replaced these).
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey Tim, you mentioned your technique of washing oil needs food particles to settle out the water. I'm thinking that is what went wrong when I tried to use your method to clean this real bad oil. I had filtered it through a sock filter so it didn't have any particles. I still have that oil sample sitting and after all this time it still hasn't completely settled down. There is the water layer, then the pancake batter layer and then the wide oil layer. This oil layer is about 85% of the total volume but half of the oil is still peanut butter colored and the rest is clean looking oil. I wondered why I couldn't get it to work. What do you think, is this the root of my failure?
-Richard


2002 Excursion 4 x 4 with a 7.3 liter powerstroke and Several diesel trucks and equipment associated with the arborist field.
 
Location: Bonnieville, Kentucky | Registered: June 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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• I’m a new member and learning what it takes to run my diesel on wvo. I have a good idea on how to filter but drying the wvo seems to be a more difficult process. I found these beads of Water absorbing polymers. That look very interesting they absorb water from Hydraulic oil systems
• Automotive and diesel fuel systems
• Marine fuel and lubricant systems
• Air environments
• Packaging of water sensitive materials
• Localized spill containment and collection systems
Check out this web site let me know what you guys think
http://www.hitechpolymers.com/Products/hisorbwater.asp
 
Registered: August 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting. I wonder if this could be the true source of the infamous acusorb beads?


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I always thought accusorb beads were silica gel.

Lots of plastics are hygroscopic Nylon 6, Nylon 66, and PBT/polyester come to mind. They will suck moisture out of the air. many times, parts that work fine in the summer time will crack in use in the winter time - because the moisture absorption makes them more flexible - at least for Nylons.
 
Location: Saginaw, MI, USA | Registered: January 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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mcguyver -- Food particals -- I think this is the differance - Others have also said they tried my style of water washing and ended up with a water/oil emulsion that took for ever to seperate, this is exactly what happened to me when I got the rain water into my filter tank, only the top inch or so cleared in over a week of settling. I did drain a couple of gallons of free water off the bottom of this oil but the bulk of the oil had enough water entrained in it to be the peanutbutter color.

I run my collected oil through a 3-stocking strainer but there is still enough very fine food bits in the oil to be able to see a color change, looks like muddy silt in a river type thing, so I have lots of water adsorbing food bits in the oil that works with the water washing/settling.

Looks like if the oil is pretty clean already the water washing is counter productive as it makes an emulsion that basicly never seperates.

Mist washing may be the way to go on cleaner oil, not so much for food particals but to dissolve out the water solubles like sugar, etc ? -- not sure - never tried it.

Doing some more research on siphon style oil fired burners for making hot water or for a large flow-rate flash evaporator (using used engine oil or vegoil for fuel). Looks like there may be a way to automaticly control the amount of heat from one of these units by controling the fuel feed pressure. This might allow using a fixed orifice rather than the ball valve that magnito is using on his unit, shouldn't need as much tending. still researching this.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
92 dodge cummins with over 260,000 miles. Running an unheated 50% diesel/50% WVO blend for about the last 75,000 miles when temps above 50 deg f, no modifications or heating except the addition of a throw-away in-line fuel filter (removed during cold weather).
As of 8-01-05 I have been testing a 75% WVO/15% gasahol (90% RUG/10% ethanol)/10% diesel blend. Works fine down to about 65 f then starts rough. Runs ok once engine warms up. Back to a 50/50 diesel blend sence 9-15-05, just to cool now. -- 11-01-05 Modified stock fuel tank internal fuel pickup to have I.D. of 3/8 inch, this eliminated cold start slow idle and bogg on acceleration. Now adding 1 ounce each of acetone and pure gum spirits of turpentine to each 5 gallons of any blend, seems to help keep the fats in solution to a lower temperature --Heated 2nd tank fuel system installed january 2010, now running on a heated blend of 90% veg/5% diesel/5% RUG (no acetone or turpentine, heat replaced these).
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tim, you have successfully confused me. Before you throw a victory party you should know you're not the first.
I thought that a "siphon" type fuel supply for a burner worked by having compressed air blowing over the end of a tube and the other end of the tube is positioned in such a manner as to be able suck or "siphon" the oil from a supply that circulates to the burner and back to the fuel tank. Something on the order of Purnelly's Principle. I know it's not "Purnelly" but it is sounds real close. At any rate, the fuel supply isn't pressurized it simple passes by the "siphon" tube and returns to the tank. What exactly do you mean by "siphon" style burner and how are you regulating the fuel supply. Could you elaborate??
I’m going to build a flash evaporator as soon as I can.
-Richard


2002 Excursion 4 x 4 with a 7.3 liter powerstroke and Several diesel trucks and equipment associated with the arborist field.
 
Location: Bonnieville, Kentucky | Registered: June 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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