Can anyone using an electric lift pump for svo share what kind they are using, where they got it and how much$ it cost?
I know there are a lot of them that don't hold up well and some specially made ones that do but cost several hundred dollars. Is there anything in between?
thanks,
Paul

In my experience the ones that work well with thick wvo cost well over a tousand dollars.

The ones that cost several hundred dollars ARE a compromise between what works well and what is affordable.

I've had good luck with a Carter fuel pump, acting as a veggy boost pump in my little truck. NAPA #P74017. Cost was about $65. It's been in my Mazda for about 5 years, pumping warm, filtered, dried SVO. If you need something capable of doing more than that, the prices go up in a hurry. Tell us what your application is, and someone will be right with you.
Cheers,
JohnO

Try the Master e8012s. Available at autozone for about $30. Runs 5-9 lbs pressure. I use one just after a 10 micron filter and the tank and another one just before the main filter on my f350 idi. Getting good service for about a year now.
Fred

FWIW - The Airtex / Master equivalent from Autozone of that Carter pump P74017 mentioned by JohnO is a Master E8153 ( 10-14 psi). I don't know what the safe lift pump pressure limits (that won't damage the IP) are but it is probably best to stay close to the stock lift pump pressure specifications. However, I have wondered if one would need a higher pressure pump to compensate for the higher viscosity of WVO pushing through a filter etc . I am using the E8012 (pulling from a coolant heated fuel pickup) and it seems to supply enough fuel to the IP but the output after my 2 micron filter was not the rated 1/2 gallon per minute when I checked it .

i plan to put one by the tank, which has a heated pickup and then a short length of HIH; after that would be the pump, then the filter.
Would i really need a pump that can handle thick wvo for that case? by the time i turn the lift pump on the wvo would already be warmed up a bit by the coolant.
thanks,
paul

Gear type pumps are preferable, but cost more. Mallory and FASS make them, but they aren't cheap. Some people have good luck with the NAPA pumps or even the Facets, but some people also end up buying 3 or 4 that fail, so sometimes by the time you finally break down and buy a better pump you will end up spending twice as much.

Good Luck!

I believe the "trick" is staying within the limitations of the pump is engineered for. Very few fuel pumps are engineered to deal with 150°F fuel. I suspect most pump failures ...especially failures of less expensive pumps... is because they were located in sections of the VO fuel system where thy were subject to temperatures much higher than they were designed to withstand. Part of a well engineered conversion is arranging componetns so they are not subject to temps/pressures they are not capable of withstanding long term.

Stock lift pump on a Cat 3406 makes 40-45psi with new filters on.

We've had good luck with the Mallory pumps - the 70, 140, and the 5110FI. But without a looped return, they'll fail. As Dana points out,the heat of (heated) WVO is hard on them, and that they aren't designed to pump something as viscous as WVO - and this is why a looped return is so beneficial. (We feature a pic of a Vormax and 34 gallon aluminum tank in the trunk of a '99 Mercedes E300 on our homepage, and that customer didn't want a looped return - he was worried about air issues, even though I explained that a properly plumbed system should have no air. So for 18 months, he ran with the WVO returned to the tank. Then he had us install a temperature sender and gauge. Fully warmed up, at 75 mph on the freeway, he was seeing only 125F post Vegtherm Mega (with a coolant-heated Vormax and a HotFox in the tank.) So we looped the return (and installed a brass 3-port manual valve so he could run return to tank if he wanted) and his temp went to 180F! *And* the Walbro pump in the trunk, which used to run continuously when he was on WVO, now runs very seldom - only when needed. The amount of fuel returned to the tank on a Mercedes is about 15X the amount actually consumed, and if you make this fuel available to the IP, you lower the demand on whatever pump, stock or added, you're using, lower the vacuum throughout the entire system (which paradoxically lowers the chance of air being sucked in through a funky fitting.)

A common failure on the Mallory pumps is the brush springs fail and the brushes no longer contact the commutator. We think this has more to do with how hard the pump is working that the heat of the WVO.

We're about to start selling FASS pumps, and while they're over $400, with built-in bypass-type fuel pressure regulators, they have 23A motors and have proved bulletproof.

Craig

http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/6000_pump.html
Walbro Series 6000 Fuel Pumps
6065 12V, 10 psi, 45 gal/hr, negative ground, 1/4" NPSF orifice, w/ diesel filter


here is a photo of the walbro there are a few more photo's of lift pumps at this link

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/5531036871




FASS Fuel Pump for Veg Oil

SKU: RP-1004
http://www.vulcanperformance.com/servlet/the-124/FASS--Fuel-Pump/Detail

has anyone had good luck with this lift pump?

Omar

www.omarsales.com

I tried a looped return and had some air problems but dieselrover's comments on the pros (less load , heat recovery, have inspired me to revist looping . If the loop comes back after the WVO filter then the WVO filter life would be longer too .



explaination makes a lot of sense .

I use the Facet posi-flow pump on my single tank vw 03 tdi. I installed it right before the fuel filter and it feeds the IP. it takes only a couple of secs to prime(very audible), and handles WVO well. I do mix WVO with 20% RUG, so i am learly of looping my return due to the high temps. i already have injector line heaters so being that RUG has a boil point of 102 deg F, i want any excess vapor to return to the tank and vent

A couple of years ago I tried to make a more reliable FP from a Sunstrand diesel heater pump.
These have a gear pump inside and a bypass relief. I drove it with a Benz electric fan motor. It was a Frankenstien looking thing but it worked pretty well. IMO the real problem that FP's are not designed to pump veg...with most motorized electrics need to always pump max volume. So when the engine is idling the pump is trying to pump the volume of fuel required to run max fuel. A bypass or relief must be used. A piston or diaphram pump that uses a spring to push the fuel out doesn't have this problem. The stroke adjusts to the volume of fuel to the demand... But piston and diaphram pumps that run off the engine can have a hard time with thicker veg... I've seen several of the Cummins lift pumps fail. I guess the Utopian Veg FP would maintain constant pressure but instantly adjust flow to keep up with demand, it would have large passages and operate at low frequency to prevent cavitation. A gear pump with a pressure sensor to adjust the motor RPM could work well. Maybe someone will build one or a bunch and offer them for sale at $50 each.... In my dreams...

Not likely to be 50 bucks and not exactly small but I am testing how well Suntec oil furnace burner fuel pumps can do the job, turning them with heavy duty 100% duty cycle 24 volt DC sidewalk scooter motors. these motors could be run at a full 12 volts if using the internal pressure regulator or the motor speed could be controled by a pressure sensor just prior to the injection pump to keep the input pressure at the required pressure but only use as much power as is nescicary to do the job. They can produce from "0" to 150 pounds pressure and deliver from 15 to 30 G/H, or more, depending on the model. These pumps have fittings that will allow the addition of a couple of glowplugs to work as heaters, are true gear pumps, can be configured to return the bypass fuel to either the tank or back into the pump itself, and have built-in adjustable pressure regulators, have only one rubber seal (some models use a ceramic seal, still researching a source for a biodiesel survivable rubber seal, suntec so far only gaurantees up to B5), and run reliably at temps above 200 deg f.
I am Still testing verious models of these pumps so nothing conclusive yet.

Hi Tim,
The pump I used was a suntech by sunstrand...

I've been using the Master pump from AutoZone mentioned above
paid @ $35 for it
been running like a top for @ 6 mos
this after frying 2 Facets in one year
I think the key has been having a 'pressure-relief' feature so the pump isn't constantly running into back-pressure, wearing itself out
my pump is back at the tank, pushes fuel up to engine bay and into VO filter
but I put a little hose coming out of the top of the filter feeding back to the tank, so that pump can circulate fuel all day without resistance
seems happy so far
and the IP has a constant supply of fuel right up in the engine bay to draw on

We worked with Diesel Performance Products to develop the pump Omar referred to as the “FASS Fuel Pump for Veg Oil”. The company is Diesel Performance Products and one of their other products is the famous “FASS” (Fuel air separating system) filter unit, it is not the name of the company however and not the name of HPFP pump. These pumps are expensive, no doubt, but they carry a factory warranty for 2 years when running VO (this may expand to 4 years) and are designed to pump heavy, hot VO.

I have a bucket (literally) of Mallory pumps and promise you that they will not like pumping hot fuel looped or not, companies who have had good luck with them are not using them to pump heated fuel, or they would fail at any pressure above about 30psi.

If at all possible build your system so that the pump is a shared component, in this way the VO is washed from the pump upon shutdown and not allowed to react with the parts of the pump, and the pump is started and warm running diesel before VO is ever introduced to it. Asking any pump to go through its start-up spike when filled with cold semi-solid VO is a poor plan.

cgoodwin --

quote:

the VO is washed from the pump upon shutdown and not allowed to react with the parts of the pump,

------------------

Please elaborate on what you mean by "react", are you refering to a corrosion type problem or simply a "load" problem caused by gelled oil ?

It corrosion, was it a problem with a pump made of aluminum or iron and what was the nature and extent of the problem ?

Bucket of Mallory pumps -- Were these pumps modified in any way or were they in there the basic stock configuration, what models (flow rate info). What was the nature of there failures, was it the actual pump or was it the electric motor, were all the failures basicly the same ?

any other new lift pumps out there ?

Omar
www.omarsales.com