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Do FFA's matter when running SVO?
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I know FFA's matter when making biodiesel, but does it matter when running SVO?
 
Location: NPR, Florida | Registered: January 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've wondered the same. How much of our reactions with various metals are related to the high acidity? Also, I wonder if we'd have as much of the dreaded chicken skin problem with neutralized wvo? I know polymerization requires heat and oxygen but I think there is some accumulation regardless how well we keep air out of the system.

Years ago, one regular forum member did a test where he found 10% regular gasoline inhibited polymerization.

I'm thinking of running a test with regular
1) regular filtered wvo
2) wvo plus 10% gasoline
3) wvo neutralized with Light Soda Ash (cheap, alkaline)
4) wvo neutralized plus 10% gasoline.

My thinking is to mix in some Light Soda Ash or baking soda into the oil before filtering. It seems that it would grab any water as well as the free fatty acids. However, it may turn it into a creamy emulsion depending on how much is in there.


2002 F-250, 7.3l on WVO since '04
'82 VW Rabbit diesel 1.6l na
'83 GMC 6.2l Class C RV
'85 F-350, 6.9l flat bed
'85 E-350, 6.9l cube van
2 Mercedes 300SD's
3 Chinese Changfa-style diesel generators- 12kw, 8kw & 7.5kw
Mitsubishi 3 cyl diesel generator/light tower
Kubota 2 cyl. diesel, water cooled air compressor
Onan 12.5kw air-cooled diesel genset
I run my company entirely on renewable energy including electricity from generators running on biofuels.

 
Location: El Dorado, Ark | Registered: July 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The UVO I use is selected to be very low FFA, it's blended with kerosene and petrol [V50\K35\P15]. The blend does not polymerize or cause any corrosion. It only slightly brightens a dull penny.
The 'dull penny' test is the easiest way to see if the UVO you have is high FFA.

If you use gasoline, either use premium with no alcohol or water-wash the alcohol out before blending it with UVO.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting about the ethanol-free gasoline. But I can see it. Thanks!


2002 F-250, 7.3l on WVO since '04
'82 VW Rabbit diesel 1.6l na
'83 GMC 6.2l Class C RV
'85 F-350, 6.9l flat bed
'85 E-350, 6.9l cube van
2 Mercedes 300SD's
3 Chinese Changfa-style diesel generators- 12kw, 8kw & 7.5kw
Mitsubishi 3 cyl diesel generator/light tower
Kubota 2 cyl. diesel, water cooled air compressor
Onan 12.5kw air-cooled diesel genset
I run my company entirely on renewable energy including electricity from generators running on biofuels.

 
Location: El Dorado, Ark | Registered: July 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have run SVO for 5 years and 90,000 miles with zero problems and I have never tested for FFAs.
 
Registered: September 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by kirkh:
I have run SVO for 5 years and 90,000 miles with zero problems .


Same here only I have been doing it for 8.
I have also run oil that titrated 18+ and never had any problems with that. The stuff was a nice light colour and quite shiny looking which baffled my friend and I why the titration was so high but it always was from the place I got it. I ran that stuff for a couple of years and all was good.

I think when running SVO, worrying about FFA is just being overly pedantic and looking for problems where there are none.
 
Registered: July 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I started making bio in 2000 and running WVO in a two tank in 2000. I stopped making Bio in 2000 also. I have been running Two tank SVO since. My vehicles and for the last 4 years my wife's Jeep. Filtering is the hardest part. That Jeep has 100k miles on grease and the tank is spotless and it runs perfectly reliably better than most of these Jeeps they are horribly unreliable and all we did was modify it to run on SVO, I have at least 500k combined grease miles over the years.

In all my time running grease I have found the most important part is good filtering of the grease. All the people that say they let it settle and pour it into a 2 micron bag filter are not filtering good enough. Try pouring it 4 times then you are getting close. I pass my with a centrifuge at least 4 times. It costs me $1 in electricity to filter 30 gallons of veg oil but it comes out real clean.


Robert
In Fort Lauderdale running a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 2 veg tanks HOH 2 upgraded greasecar vavles 3/8 fuel line 5/8 heater line HOH Hose wrapped filter. Injector Line heater on the Common Rail. 2nd car 2005 Mercedes CDI, Raw Power fuel pump, 36 gallon veg tank in trunk coolant heated HOH, rubber hose wrapped fuel filter, FPHE, 3 greasecar valves, Common rail line heater.
 
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL | Registered: June 01, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What flow rate (gallons per hour) are you sending it through the centrifuge?
 
Location: NPR, Florida | Registered: January 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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About 7 gallons per hour, Close to 30 gallons every four hours. I have two water heaters (30 gallons) mounted on a shelf with the centrifuge in the middle. One is dripping into the centrifuge at a time. When I am behind on filtering one is heating while the other is spinning. It has a timer on it and every 4 hours the pump turns on and refills the water heater from the bucket it is dripping into. It will do this until I stop it. I pull a lever and send it to the ready to use drum after 3 or 4 cycles. From there it go into a 200 gallon tank with a pump that acts as my filling station. The filling station is in the back yard. If you are ever in the area it is usually full. Stop by and I will fill your tank.


Robert
In Fort Lauderdale running a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 2 veg tanks HOH 2 upgraded greasecar vavles 3/8 fuel line 5/8 heater line HOH Hose wrapped filter. Injector Line heater on the Common Rail. 2nd car 2005 Mercedes CDI, Raw Power fuel pump, 36 gallon veg tank in trunk coolant heated HOH, rubber hose wrapped fuel filter, FPHE, 3 greasecar valves, Common rail line heater.
 
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL | Registered: June 01, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have been running WVO for 5 years,have 110k WVO miles & have never worried about FFA's & have had no problems either.

I think the chances of have problems running high FFA WVO are very low.

I wouldn't worry about it.


2001 f-350 ext cab 7.3. 04/10 DIY check valve system. 20 plate FPHE,Fass HPFP set at 70 PSI, TIH, Davco 322 filter head with 10 micron spin on filter,150 micron prefilter, Hydraforce purge valve, 60 liter poly tank with hotfox, ss braided hose to heads,, oil temp, pressure & fuel gauges.



 
Location: Nova Scotia. | Registered: July 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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From what I understand, Acids can only be present in water.
I dry all my oil so one would conclude therefore there can be no acids in it. I think drying is under appreciated myself. Dirty oil clogs a filter. Wet oil can cause growths, poly, erosion, corrosion, poor running and a host of other problems.

As far as filtering goes, My oil is drying and filtering at he same time. I use 5 or 1UM filters, depending what I can get at the time, and like maddasher the oil does multiple ( many) passes through the filter.

I too believe that processing the oil including drying is the key.
 
Registered: July 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So the consensus is that it FFA's don't matter. That's good, I was concerned over what to do with high FFA oil or if I should even pass on collecting it.

Robert...what model centrifuge do you have and what voltage?

I was having a discussion with the guy from usfiltermaxx and this is what he told me. This is based on a single pass using their 6000 G unit and .14 KW electric cost.

CENTRIFUGE RUNNING COST:

Assuming (centrifuge power) that it was running fully loaded to maximum capacity for worst case cost assessment $3.75 for 24 hours producing at least 360 gallons costing $0.0104 per gallon, however it is more likely that is will be drawing about 60% of that or $2.26 per 24 hours or $0.00629 per gallon.

FOR DELUXE MODELS WITH 3kW HEATER SET:

Heating current depends upon flow rate, starting oil temp and ending oil temp. Assuming that the oil was pretty cold and you needed the heaters to run at least 60% of the time, you are adding about $6 a day or $0.0167 per gallon.

Approximate total cost per gallon or $0.023 or less than 3 cents per gallon.

SPINDLE LIFE:

Spindle life is approximately 2000 hours, however some get over 4000 hours. This depends upon temperature and run time. Higher temperature and longer runtimes cause the grease in the spindle to dry out faster. Bearings are commonly available #6204 so they are not a proprietary part number. The spindles are packed with high-temp red grease that is also commonly available.
 
Location: NPR, Florida | Registered: January 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I plugged mine into a kil-o-watt meter. Works out to about $.03 per gallon I round up to 4 just n case.


Robert
In Fort Lauderdale running a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 2 veg tanks HOH 2 upgraded greasecar vavles 3/8 fuel line 5/8 heater line HOH Hose wrapped filter. Injector Line heater on the Common Rail. 2nd car 2005 Mercedes CDI, Raw Power fuel pump, 36 gallon veg tank in trunk coolant heated HOH, rubber hose wrapped fuel filter, FPHE, 3 greasecar valves, Common rail line heater.
 
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL | Registered: June 01, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) as fuel  Hop To Forums  General SVO Discussion    Do FFA's matter when running SVO?

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