quote:

quote:
Hmm, I wonder how we can get back on the topic of the single pass basket style centrifuges that this thread is supposed to be about?


I suggest that another discussion be begun with a link to this one and that we request those who have de-railed this one continue to post of topic and antagonistic posts in this one but leave the new discussion alone.

Dana
दान

Great idea Dana!

Whoever is actually guilty of doing those things should stay out of the new thread...

quote:

Whoever is actually guilty of doing those things should stay out of the new thread...

LOL..Yeah I think that has been taken care of already. New Discussion on this centrifuge. Too bad it had to be taken completely off this forum to have it.

quote:

Too bad it had to be taken completely off this forum to have it.

I hope nobody asks any uncomfortable questions over there, otherwise they might be wrongly accused of being uncivil...

I guess it won't matter anyway, censorship will likely protect anyones' feelings by hiding dissenting opinions and candy coating everthing...

quote:

Originally posted by welder:

quote:

Too bad it had to be taken completely off this forum to have it.

I hope nobody asks any uncomfortable questions over there, otherwise they might be wrongly accused of being uncivil...

I guess it won't matter anyway, censorship will likely protect anyones' feelings by hiding dissenting opinions and candy coating everthing...

I seriously doubt it. The AC guy seemed very tolerant and mature. He didn't seem as uncomfortable with the lack of civility as the folks on the forum that wanted him to continue to post here. Too bad a single uncivil participant can drive that kind of expertise/knowledge away.

I haven't been driven away, I am trying to localize the questions regarding my product to one place so that people can have them answered in a public setting and can refer to them for future knowledge. This way I do not have to answer the same question time and time again. Answering questions in multiple forums plus questions pertaining to my product is a full time job in itself.

quote:

I haven't been driven away,

That's good. I'm glad that you are able to bear seemingly critical questioning.

I hope you can see that the supposed harshness that some have accused me of is actually only meant as frank questioning. Several times on this thread I have stated my support for this type od product & my best wishes for the companies that make them. Unfortunately, people with hidden political agendas prefered to slander me than to engage in unbiased dialogue.

I don't claim to be an expert on CF design, I only try to use common sense to guide my assesssment of the topic. I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong.

My chief concern over the advertisement of this type of CF is/was that since the user is expected to manually apply selective "harvesting" methods in recovering only liquid VO, there may no really by much significant advantage in removing the relatively minor remnant of fats/PHO left in the recovered WVO to justify the product purchase cost. This statement of concern isn't intended to dissuade anyone from buying these excellent CFs, but rather it is/was only intended to serve as a stimulus for more accurrate advertising. Again, if I am wrong, I am quite willing to be corrected.

Here's an example of the logic I'm trying to use to assess the use of these units for seperating fats/PHO from WVO:

1. If the customer must manually avoid drawing fats/PHO into their recovered WVO tank, then I'm curious as to whether the amount of fat/PHO accidently drawn into their recovery tank would actually be enough to pose a real problem or not.

Stated differently, would one rotor full of fat in a vehicles tank of fuel really pose a significant cold flow risk? As was mentioned earlier, the fats would eventually settle to the bottom of the veggie tank, but although these tanks are sometimes heated, they would also normally be used under conditions that would encourage the fats to stay mixed into the liquid WVO because of vehicular aggitation. Even if the fats/PHO settled out overnight, most veggie tanks use heated draw tubes that draw from near the bottom, but not directly off of it. Basically, I'm thinking that even if an entire rotor of fat were to settle to the bottom of a veggie tank, the depth of fat/PHO wouldn't even reach the bottom of the fuel draw tube, so I'm not sure that there would be any real risk there.

2. Assuming that a single rotor full of fat settled to the bottom of a veggie tank, wouldn't a cheap 12 volt pad heater under the fuel draw tube be enough to liquify the fats enough to allow for adequate flow? Have any of your customers who reported cold flow problems tried this simple/affordable remedy?



By the way, I'm curious to hear what driveline components the various direct drive CF manufacturers use to dampen/soften the sharp kinetic force that the electric motors impart to the point of connection to the CF rotors?

Are you guys using rubber couplers, centrifugal clutches or small hydraulic torque converters? (Don't laugh, I've actually got a very small hydraulic torque converter at home. They do exist.)

Welder,

I do have to say you are persistent regarding this subject.

****This technique only applies to single tank conversions and oil with a lot of fats/PHO present

You have pointed out that if there is more fats/PHO than the bowl can handle than you will have to clean out the bowl when it fills and I agree (simple arithmetic). Now in order to avoid this you can settle this oil for a bit before you process it. This would not pose a major problem for most people because it will probably take them some time to collect and fill a 55 gallon drum with oil (or even a lesser amount), and while this is taking place most of the oil can be settled (it ends up being settled in cubies or a drum while it sits around waiting to be processed anyways). Now since the oil hasn't been settled for a long period of time it will still have some of the contaminants (fats/PHO, water, debris) mixed in the top layer that can have detrimental effects to you car. It is these contaminants that the centrifuge would be able to handle when processed because many/some of the fats/PHO will have settled out so you will not have to clean out the bowl of fats/PHO a number of times while processing the ~55 gallons of oil (or even a lesser amount). You also have to remember that the debris and fats/PHO will be compressed down in the bowl because of the g-force applied to them in the bowl, so the amount that is seen at the bottom of a cubie is not the same as if it was compressed down.

Now it seems as if you are not very familiar with single tank conversions so I will give you a primer. The most common conversions only convert from the fuel filter forward (and some forward from the fuel filter) to the engine, so everything behind the fuel filter is subject to clogging from fats/PHO because nothing is heated in this general area. As you can see it is paramount to remove most of the fats/PHO (it is these fats/PHO that will clog fuel systems), and you are correct that all of it does not need to be removed because small amounts will not pose clogging problems (agitation and unaided tank heating does occur).

Now you talk about adding features to people's single tank conversions, yes you could and they would probably work but some people that have single tank conversions are not very mechanically minded so removing the fats/PHO is probably the easiest way to ensure that the car runs without any fuel system issues. You also have to worry about amperage draw from the newly installed DC heater pad, already installed electric injector heaters (commonly used), and an already installed electric fuel filter heater (commonly used) from a pretty small alternator in an old Mercedes. As you can see it is not as simple as adding components to one’s car.

There are no drastic jolts or extreme shearing torque subjected to the bowl or motor shaft, so there is no need to for dampeners. The bowl is tightly connected to the motor shaft (making it act as one solid piece of metal) and the only torque subjected to the motor shaft/bowl would be on start-up but even then it is ramped up not immediately thrusted up to ~3,600RPM. When oil is poured into the bowl it happens as a steady flow rate of fluid not a huge load of metal pellets that can have a dramatic effect on the motor shaft/bowl.

I hope this answers your questions.

Automated CF & Heater: Parts List & Assembly Instructions
(This is for people who would like to make their waste oil cleaning automated so when the selected processing time expires the centrifuge, heater, and oil flow are all shut off simultaneously)

Heater Assembly Instructions:
This heater assembly plumbs into the merchant coupling located in the back of the centrifuge and will vertically hang lower than the installed centrifuge, please take this into account when designing your centrifuge installation.

Plug the dial timer directly into the wall socket (or into an extension cord plugged directly into the wall socket) and plug the power strip directly into the dial timer. The centrifuge, heater, and solenoid must be plugged directly into this power strip which will be controlled by the dial timer. This configuration will allow you to set the timer to any length of time (e.g. 2 hours) in which the centrifuge, heater, and oil flow (solenoid) will be fully operational, once this period of time elapses the dial timer will simultaneously shut off the centrifuge, heater and solenoid. This process ensures that the centrifuge and the heater will not contribute to unnecessary energy consumption, while turning off the solenoid will eliminate dirty oil from flowing into the non-operating centrifuge.

To wire the solenoid for operation, connect the 6’ extension cord (HOT, NEUTRAL, and GROUND wires) to the corresponding receptors on the DIN Coil of the solenoid by following the provided solenoid wiring directions.

(*Liquid Teflon pipe sealant should be used on all connecting threads.) Thread the 10” pipe into one end of the reducer tee, and the hex bushing into the opposite end. Then thread the hot water heating element into the hex bushing making sure that the heater element does not rest against the inside wall of the pipe, if so, remove and carefully bend the heater element accordingly. Next, thread the reducing coupler onto the opposite end of the pipe and then thread the street elbow into the top of the reducing coupler. While the heater is not connected to the centrifuge; wrap the pipe, tee, and coupling with the pipe insulation tape so that it has a double layer of insulation. After the heater is insulated cut off the female plug end of the other 6’ extension cord, strip the two wires, and crimp a pair of ring terminals to the ends of these two wires. Connect each ring terminal to different posts located on the end of the heater element (it does not matter which post the HOT or NEUTRAL wire is connected to). It is this wire that is connected to the heater element that will also plug into the power strip. In order to connect the heater to the centrifuge you must thread one of the pipe nipples into the elbow then thread the other into the centrifuge with the pipe union connecting the two of them. Once the heater is connected to the centrifuge, thread the ball valve (provided with the purchase of the centrifuge) into the ½” end of the reducer tee. Now it is time to plumb the Feeder Tank hose (or PVC) to the heater, making sure the solenoid is plumbed somewhere in-between the Feeder Tank and the heater (this ensures that the oil flow is eliminated when the power is shut off). We recommend using a gate valve either upstream or downstream from the heater in order to adjust the flow rate into the centrifuge. A flow rate of ~10 gallons/hour will equal a processing temperature of ~150°F (if starting from an ambient temperature of ~65°F). To determine the processing temperature of the oil a candy thermometer can be used to check the temperature of the oil exiting the centrifuge (this must be done after the centrifuge has been running for ~10 minutes), this oil is approximately 10-15°F lower than the oil entering the centrifuge. This flow rate can be accomplished by referring to the flow rate table in the centrifuge instruction manual, along with a measuring cup and a stop watch (to measure the amount of oil coming out of the centrifuge over a given period of time), and by adjusting the gate valve accordingly. A quick reminder, always start the centrifuge with the ball valve in the closed position until the centrifuge reaches full operational speed (~5 seconds) then proceed to open the ball valve. Follow these steps any time you turn on the centrifuge to process oil, even if you are trying to determine flow rate. If the centrifuge, heater, and solenoid have been shut off automatically by the dial timer, make sure you close the ball valve before starting the centrifuge the next time you process a batch of waste oil.

For More Information Please Visit: http://www.absolutecentrifuge.com/installation.aspx

This is what the heater looks like partially assembled (minus the pipe union and the two short nipples on either side of the union connecting the heater to the centrifuge) also not plumbed to the centrifuge or the Feeder Tank. There is one small inconsistency, a regular tee was used which is why a hex bushing was utilized in order to plumb the Feeder Tank to the heater (it is cheaper to use a reducer tee than to use a regular tee + an additional hex bushing).

This is what the heater looks like when insulated and plumbed to centrifuge. The heater is installed vertically and hangs lower than the centrifuge allowing the heater element housed in the 10” pipe to remain constantly surrounded by oil, this ensures that the heater element does not overheat and burn out. The gate valve is plumbed in-between the centrifuge and the heater (somewhat visible behind the white PVC pipe) to allow the user to adjust the flow rate. The installation is slightly different from what is capable with the components in the “Parts List” but there were space limitations so a slightly modified version was necessary.

Hi folks, I've been watching the forum for a while now; and decided I had to jump in so I could share some information and thoughts. First off, using a CF is the only way to go for cleaning oil! But as we all know, not all CFs were created equal.
I don't want to get into the "Who came first" discussion, because I don't think it really matters that much. The market has been created and is going strong. I would say to the guys at Simple Centrifuge: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Until now there hasn't really been that much to distinguish the different CFs from each other besides price and quality of construction; the mechanisms have remained pretty much the same. However... that is all about to change. Simple Centrifuge has come out with their new design that makes the competition look more like a "Sit 'N Spin" in comparison!
The new unit is much more efficient than their old design and the imitators' products. They have a higher price, but much better product. You get what you pay for. the new feed cone design is brilliant! It completely resolves all of the old splash issues that were common in CFs. Seriously, my hat goes off to these guys. I have watched this company continue to move forward and innovate, these guys have been at it a long time and they seem to stand behind their product. Simple Centrifuge would definitely be my first choice, i wouldn't waste my money on anything else.

There is one other thing I'd like to add, and this is just to vent a little about the current economic situation:

The Raw Power Centrifuge is the most inferior cheap product of any. It has a cast bowl (very low quality), not a good design on the bowl either. I think the worst thing is that it was Stolen and copied and sent overseas for cheap production. How do you control the quality on something like that? Where is your personal investment; can you really stand behind such a product? It's not about the product, it's all about making a quick buck. This is why we (America) are in an economic depression right now because of guys like this, shame on you Leon! Support AMERICAN INDUSTRY; BUY AMERICAN!

Have a nice day.

Hi Guys, my radar caught this crap message by "john deere" yesterday and I had to let it sit for a day before I added my two cents.

First, "John Deere" registered a week before making two identical posts two identical posts; one in the biodiesel side, one on the SVO side. Clearly just a blatant plug for Simple Centrifuge and slander to me and WVO Designs.

All I have to say to you "john deere" is: bite me.
To all the innocent bystanders, my current and future customers: I am sorry that you needed to witness such low class. I have never spoke or printed anything negative about any of my competitors and I have no intent or need to start now. I am just sorry that the boys at Simple Centrifuge feel that they need to resort to such shallow tactics.

Offshore manufacturing and good engineering design like casting the rotor (how do you think billet is made anyway?) allow me to provide my customers a superior , higher value product for the lowest possible cost. I serve my customers first and while $2200 for a motor and 20lbs of aluminum sounds like a great business model to some, my customers literally demanded from me a lower cost option. One year later, and I am pleased to say that I have been able to provide MUCH more for MUCH less.

I go to great lengths to ensure that that I OVER DELIVER in service, quality, and innovation. I stand behind each one 100%. Just ask a Raw Power owner, I am sure he will agree.


---->"Very Low Quality" Cast Rotor Bowl

Leon:
You are Absoluely the man as far as I'm concerned.
To say you offered me great customer service is a huge understatement.
To read a post from anybody casting aspertions on you or the RPC would cause me to believe that they are up to something. Unfortunately most everyone these days is up to something !!!
Thanks for holding my hand and getting us up and running.
Thanks for answering the phone countless times during that process
to patiently answer stupid questions in a way that made me feel imnportant.
Thanks for a great product that does more than you said it would.
Talk to you soon !!

Tom Hamlin
President
Synerfuel LLC

WOW, I read the preceeding post from "jondeere" and I am amazed at how inconsiderate AND inaccurate it is!

Let me digress:

I have been in the Automotive/Heavy Equipment Technology business my whole life(28 years and still going strong!). I've been a factory rep, field engineer, parts and service consultant, retail Parts & Service Director, and factory service training instructor for Ford, Honda, BMW, Toyota, VW, Mazda Dodge, Detroit Diesel, Allison Transmissions & MTU Onsite Energy. I currently work as the director of service technology for a very well known factory heavy equipment distributor, where I teach Allison Automatic Transmissions (One of the first "certified instructors" to teach Allison Hybrids), large MTU/Katolight power generators, electrical/electronics, air brakes, air conditioning, and so on.

I say this not to impress anyone, but to impress upon you the fact that I have a fairly good grasp of the technical aspects of what makes all things automotive tick.

Over a year ago I converted my first diesel to run on Straight WVO (a very nice Mercedes 300D), and have not looked back since. I did boat-loads of research before embarking on this journey, and have even written a book (soon to be released) on using WVO as a fuel. I must say that I have met many folks along the way, some great, some who try real hard, some who don't last very long, and some who I would have been better off just not meeting in the first place. (Leon is one of the GREAT ones.)

Regarding the move to centrifuging, ........ it's definitely the way to go.

If you can afford to take the plunge from the start, go for it. If not, as soon as you can afford to make the move, DO IT! (You know the Nike Ad: Just Do It! ......Well, Just Do It!)

Again, after lots of research (I'm a researcher by nature) I decided to go with the Raw Power Centrifuge that Leon Griffin offers. I watched as he posted his plans/drawings online; I read all his materials; I looked at all the competitive products, and read their materials. And finally, my conclusion was that, The Raw Power Centrifuge has no competition!

It's sized right! It's made right, and the price is right!

ALSO, Leon is about as Stand-Up a Guy as you will ever meet! Leon has been right there EVERY step of the way, and supported me in whatever way I have asked. He exemplifies customer service, has done a GREAT Job, and he has brought a heck of a great product to market in his Raw Power Centrifuge.

I was once taught that the way to build the tallest building (or bring the best product to market) is to just go ahead and build the tallest building. The key is not to go around tearing down all the other buildings trying to make yours stand out: Just go build your building as good as you can, and if you do, the rest will take care of itself. It's that Nike thing again: Just Do It!

In my honest opinion, Leon Just Did It! Not only has he built the best centrifuge for the WVO market, plain & simple, but he also backs it up 150%.

Come on all you Raw Power Users, Speak Up!

Great Job Leon, and thanks for a fabulous product!

I am not going to hide behind a user name. My name is Thomas Woods. I am a Stationary Engineer. I repair, service, and rebuild boilers, chillers, Refrigeration equippment. Example...If you are in the middle of the ocean, how do you clean your hydraulic oil? Yes, with a Centrifuge.
Now, I have been looking for a good quality centrifuge for quite awhile and Leon comes up with an inexpensive model (Thank you, President Clinton for NAFTA) I have processed 2000 gallons +++ WVO. Problems? Sure. Leon has been there to get me over the hump. I don't care who you are you do need help. Thanks Leon.

Is there a need for the centrifuge? Yes

Is there a need for great customer service? YES

Leon has stood behind his product 100%. What company CEO or owner would put his neck out there for the customer....Leon does....and should.

Thomas Woods
Stationary Engineer

Leon Griffin and WVO Design are the best. Plain and simple. bob

Hey 'John Deere' have you ever used a WVO Raw Power Centrifuge? I wouldnt think so judging by your uneducated statements. First, why would I spend extra money on your simple centrifuge (I assume you are a paid sqiub for them) when I can get not one, but two units from Leon without any problems.
We operate these units over 16 hours per day every day. The issues we have had with the Raw Power units are so minimal that its not even worth discussing.
Our operation is not in the United States, and Leon has paid for many revised parts (such as washers, bolts, etc...) to be shipped up at his expense. Dont read into that statement dickhead; we have all worked together and helped improve this unit that works just fine.
I wouldnt think your company would support us as much as Leon has.
Instead of commenting on how 'bad' the Raw Power is, why not state how valuable a tool it has become for so many at such an affordable price.
Perhalps this new design of yours with the Simple Centrifuge could have been created earlier but I assume you where too busy ****ting on everyone else.

I have had nothing but good service and quality products from Leon. I don't think jondeere is speaking from experience. If so, tell us what exactly is your problem with the Raw Power Centrifuge. Anyway this is my plug for Leon.

Looks like JonDeere needs to sit & spin himself... Being an engineer, I can honestly say that the WVO Design centrifuge is a good product. As for having the bowl or any other part of the unit made elsewhere in the world, who really cares if it keeps the price down. After all, the small amount that country made off the production of that bowl is keeping us from sending thousands a year over seas for a foreign diesel product. Is it not? And next JonDeere will tell us he's never shopped at Walmart either. Since they use nothing but American made products. If you want to keep the money here, get off diesel. Fuel prices seem to drive everything else up. The less we use, the lower their prices will have to be. It may seem like a drop in the bucket since the WVO movement is small in comparison, but it's got to start somewhere.

Leon is one of two people in the WVO field I feel that has done a huge thing for the WVO folks. He's willing to share info and designs when NO ONE ELSE WILL unless they get paid for it. He isn't raping people with prices. And unknowingly I've sent him emails in Arizona time and he's replied when it was late his time. Sorry Leon! I didn't know they went to your phone at first.

I shop around. I've spent over a year looking before I made my decision, it was an easy choice once I researched the WVO Design unit. I balance quality with price to make my decision.

So JonDeere, use your "sit & spin" for your own amusement. The rest of us really don't want to hear it. But good sales pitch all the same, good effort, just not good enough. If your product was that good, you wouldn't have to slander someone else on their site. If anything, I'd be even more turned off to what you're trying to sell us.

Yup Leon is awesome. The only thing I am mad about is that I did not get a CF sooner! I read about others having good luck with other ways of filtering and thought I could make it work right. Well a few hundred gal later I realized that the CF is the only way to go. I talked to leon a bunch about his conversion plans and he was more then helpful. I bought his CF based on lots of information I collected and like I said, am only mad that I did not do it sooner!! I am going to be helping a buddy convert his truck nextweek (probably) and after talking about CFing, he also bought one of leons CFs. So if you are on the fence about getting a CF, just do it! you will only be sad that you did not do it sooner!

Leon and his CF are awesome!

six of the last seven posters just joined. That is weird.

Thats because most of them were not members of this forum and when we heard that our boy was being blasted, we came to stand up for him.

I hang out on many other forums now and hardly come here anymore because of the way so many operate on here.