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Dieselcraft centrifuge works great -My filter and dewater rig
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I think you misunderstand what he's (sunwizard is) saying. He said he avoids white gunk from the dumpsters. He said nothing about cubies. Also, this thread is about the Dieselcraft centrifuge. A question of how he uses it is definitely relevant to this thread.

On another note... I also (As Sun) take oil from the top of the container at my restaurant. It looks clear when I get it but if it sits for 3-6 weeks their are two layers 75/25% of oil and a white gunk.

Is this a bad sign? It burns fine. I just have always let it settle. I'm assuming I won't have to do that anymore!!! Awesome! At least that's what I am hoping for.


95 Ford Powerstroke Diesel 2 tanks diy
84 GMC 6.2 Diesel
Had: Several Diesel Mercedes
 
Location: Missouri | Registered: December 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As Sun says he never gets the white goo, he awoids it when collecting as he has that choice from the very beginning. He pumps just the clear amber oil. Easy get easy go!

However just like you I have white goo to awoid! Else, IF I'm not heating the white goo all the way from the tank to the IP ready to be used after switching over to WVO - that is, from diesel to hot WVO - I'll get a "cold plug". In a cold climate, like in Sweden, I think there is no other way.

Either you go with the amber goodies in oil with less heating or you heat all of it in a proper manner.

The white go, if burnt heated, is just as good a fuel as the amber WVO - just another meltingpoint as far as I judge it.

By the way as this is a CF-posting. I have one and the white goo is not a question for the CF. White goo is general and a question of meltingpoint! The CF can't change that, but if you CF it at 180 degrees F (about 80 Celsius) you will be about two times the meltingpoint of the white goo and it will indeed be cleaned!

/Bosse
Sweden


Swede!
 
Location: Sweden | Registered: July 03, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good to hear you sweeds with the cold weather are using the ole grease. I'm part sweed myself. Anyways, as far as on topic... my question was to the CF. I asked Sun and others if I needed to settle with the CF being used now. I normally settle the white goo out of my oil. I was curious if the CF took it out and I got my answer. That's why I asked.


95 Ford Powerstroke Diesel 2 tanks diy
84 GMC 6.2 Diesel
Had: Several Diesel Mercedes
 
Location: Missouri | Registered: December 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by NickSorenson:
I normally settle the white goo out of my oil. I was curious if the CF took it out and I got my answer. That's why I asked.


Hi Nick,

If I might add a couple comments. The "white goo" should be amber when heated, I'd just be careful not to confuse highly saturated oil (good) with emulsified oil (bad). Saturated oil, when cleaned through the CF and run in a heated two tank system it is a superior fuel since it has more BTU's per volume and it doesn't polymerize very easy.

Sam


2002 F250 Vegistroke now with the new V3 module!
 
Location: Wyoming | Registered: July 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Sam,
I'm assuming there's probably some flour in the oil as well. I'd guess that looks white as it settles. I haven't used heat at all up to this point. Obviously once I start the CF thing, heat'll be a part of my filter rig.

I've read you're looking to make this a very low maintanence unit. I like your ideas. I'm going to try some things when I get mine working. First I'm just going to get it up and running. But I'm sure there are some very easy ways to automate this setup. At first I thought on the level of IC's for timers and logic (and and or type setups). But really there's plenty of that in stuff already EASILLY available like thermostats and timers with plugs on them for things like Christmas lights. So... this should be much easier than it seems. I don't expect to use a single IC or relay on this whole mama-jama.

If I come up with something that works well, I'll picture and post it.


95 Ford Powerstroke Diesel 2 tanks diy
84 GMC 6.2 Diesel
Had: Several Diesel Mercedes
 
Location: Missouri | Registered: December 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Have allmost completed the diesel craft system except for heat i filter my oil twice heat and filter thru 5/1micron bag nominal then thru 1 micron absoulte then thru the centrifuge cold and it pulled out a small amount of black residue my oil is normally very dark now seems to be iced tea in color i am hoping that when i use heat it will clear up more then i will water test before using the centrifuge i had small bubbles on the hot pan test hope heating will remove more dirt and water.
 
Location: Kennesaw Ga. | Registered: September 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by flt eng:
Have allmost completed the diesel craft system except for heat i filter my oil twice heat and filter thru 5/1micron bag nominal then thru 1 micron absoulte then thru the centrifuge cold and it pulled out a small amount of black residue my oil is normally very dark now seems to be iced tea in color i am hoping that when i use heat it will clear up more then i will water test before using the centrifuge i had small bubbles on the hot pan test hope heating will remove more dirt and water.


I'd suggest you forget the filters and run the CF at at least 160 degrees F, that will solve your cleaning and your dewatering problem. If you're heating pre-CF oil than just let it settle a day or two before filtering through a 150 micron pickup into your CF barrel.

Sam


2002 F250 Vegistroke now with the new V3 module!
 
Location: Wyoming | Registered: July 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Sam/Sun. I'm having trouble keeping my oil temp below 205-210 f. Do you think that would be a problem. the oil seems cleaner at the higher temps.
 
Location: Melbourne Australia | Registered: August 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wow what a thread. I think I've been through it 2x now. I'd like to distill my questions here if possible:

1) Conical tank: I have a good local source for a nice 60 gallon conical tank, but temp rating is 140F. I understand that 158 F is the magic number for best heating efficiency/viscosity. I see an equal number of posts touting 120-130 F vs 160-180 F pre-CF. If I go with the conical tank, I'm limiting myself to 140F post CF. Is this a good reason to not use the conical tank?

2) I am not a business and don't have a grainger account. I see many many parts here only listed as available through Grainer. Any suggetions on how I might source these parts? I'm in Seattle.

3) Mist-washing. I understand it is not necessary for some cases pre CF, but I plan to include it as a step for those times when it is necessary. How best to dispose of the waste water?

4) Single barrel cycle -- If I don't use a cone tank, I'll use a poly 55 gallon barrel, sealed, upside down with standpipe plumbing. If I feed the CF from the bottom drain, then move from the standpipe drain to my storage barrel post CF, will I be able to avoid egregious contamination from the small bit of gunk that doesn't exit the bottom standpipe?

5) Tank heat. I am ambivilant about flash evaporation. I would prefer to avoid it actually, so I can return oil to a closed barrel post CF and avoid the steam issue. What is my ideal temp pre CF? What is the best way to heat? My winter temps will prevent me from pumping cold oil from the tank, so I'm leaning to heating the drum rather than inline heat.

6) pumps -- I'm having a hard time telling from the specs whether a pump will work or not. I usually see specs such as this: 1.5gpm @ 1800 RPMs, max pressure 2000. How do I determine the pressure at a certain flow rate?

7) bypass -- it seems that bypassing ought to be minimzed in a well-designed system as it is wasteful to expend enrgy to pump and heat oil that doesn't enter the CF. Can anyone suggest a good way to get an optimal system with minimal bypass?

________________________________________________

Thanks for such a great thread. If I'm asking something that's been discussed to death, I apologize -- please point me to the appropriate page and I'll revisit it there. It's tough to keep all of this thread in one's head, it's taken a bit of time to get through it 2x!

Cheers,
-Brian
 
Registered: August 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rpman:
Hi Sam/Sun. I'm having trouble keeping my oil temp below 205-210 f. Do you think that would be a problem. the oil seems cleaner at the higher temps.


It should be OK. It could accelerate polymerization, but no one has reported that as a problem even when running for several days. Some pumps may have long term trouble at that high a temp.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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slickhorn,

Grainger will let you make a "one-time" purchase prior to signing up as a business owner. I called and confirmed that process before i went to Grainger, then i went and purchased a gorgeous temp gauge that is incredibly accurate with the perfect range for WVO & BioD for $50. Some folks think a BBQ or lesser quality temp gauge is ok, for me, knowing my methanol boil point was an important factor. Grainger does stock some very nice stuff.

Good luck.
 
Registered: September 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by slickhorn:
1) Conical tank: I have a good local source for a nice 60 gallon conical tank, but temp rating is 140F. I understand that 158 F is the magic number for best heating efficiency/viscosity. I see an equal number of posts touting 120-130 F vs 160-180 F pre-CF. If I go with the conical tank, I'm limiting myself to 140F post CF. Is this a good reason to not use the conical tank?


160F is clearly better. I wouldn't use it. Poly barrels are not rated for the heat for long term use either, but a few are using them.

quote:

2) I am not a business and don't have a grainger account. I see many many parts here only listed as available through Grainer. Any suggetions on how I might source these parts? I'm in Seattle.


You can get a pressure relief and guage almost anywhere like home depot plumbing dept., thats the only grainger parts I list on page 1. A glycerine filled guage is best, you can also get at www.mcmaster.com

quote:

3) Mist-washing. I understand it is not necessary for some cases pre CF, but I plan to include it as a step for those times when it is necessary. How best to dispose of the waste water?


Anywhere you like, its not hazardous, I put it on my grass in the yard.

quote:
4) Single barrel cycle -- If I don't use a cone tank, I'll use a poly 55 gallon barrel, sealed, upside down with standpipe plumbing. If I feed the CF from the bottom drain, then move from the standpipe drain to my storage barrel post CF, will I be able to avoid egregious contamination from the small bit of gunk that doesn't exit the bottom standpipe?


A standpipe is not needed or recommended, simply drain from the lowest point in the barrel, same as where the CF sucks from. I haven't had any contamination since there is hardly anything on the barrel bottom and it always stays there.

quote:

5) Tank heat. I am ambivilant about flash evaporation. I would prefer to avoid it actually, so I can return oil to a closed barrel post CF and avoid the steam issue. What is my ideal temp pre CF? What is the best way to heat? My winter temps will prevent me from pumping cold oil from the tank, so I'm leaning to heating the drum rather than inline heat.


160F. See my summary on page 1. Inline heat is better since its much faster, more efficient, and less likely to burn the VO. Having the option of some flash evaporation is very helpful, especially if you mistwash and have lots of water to remove.

quote:

6) pumps -- I'm having a hard time telling from the specs whether a pump will work or not. I usually see specs such as this: 1.5gpm @ 1800 RPMs, max pressure 2000. How do I determine the pressure at a certain flow rate?


If they don't give other pressure/flow rates, you have to guess or interpolate. That one will be higher at 90psi, maybe 2gpm.

quote:

7) bypass -- it seems that bypassing ought to be minimzed in a well-designed system as it is wasteful to expend enrgy to pump and heat oil that doesn't enter the CF. Can anyone suggest a good way to get an optimal system with minimal bypass?


Get a pump that does as close as you can to 1gpm at 90psi and you have no or little bypass. The VO that is bypassing uses very little added energy. Heating is the main energy by far, so if you want to save energy, do inline heaters.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by SunWizard:
quote:
Originally posted by rpman:
Hi Sam/Sun. I'm having trouble keeping my oil temp below 205-210 f. Do you think that would be a problem. the oil seems cleaner at the higher temps.


It should be OK. It could accelerate polymerization, but no one has reported that as a problem even when running for several days. Some pumps may have long term trouble at that high a temp.

Thanks. The oberdorfer pump is rated to 210 f so I think that might be ok. I'm getting the lab tech at the school where i work to do some tests on the oil to see if it's meets the German standard for SVO/PVO/WVO. Will keep you informed.
 
Location: Melbourne Australia | Registered: August 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Brian,

As usual, Sun did an excellent job of answering all questions.

You might use your conical tank for mistwashing?

I still wash, but not really mistwash. My feeling is "mist" washing is more applicable to making biodiesel (removing soaps) than to taking changing the PH of VO and washing out some potential contaminates. A TDS meter would still be a good idea to verify this.

What I've been doing is just stir pouring very hot water into my wash barrel full of oil, in part wash out any potential contaminates but also to heat the saturated oil that collects at the bottom. Soon after I wash I drain the water off the bottom then pump the water heated oil from the top down into my settling tank.

Regarding sediment on the bottom of the CF barrel...I'll post some interesting pictures in a couple days.

Sam

quote:
Originally posted by slickhorn:

3) Mist-washing. I understand it is not necessary for some cases pre CF, but I plan to include it as a step for those times when it is necessary. How best to dispose of the waste water?

Cheers,
-Brian


2002 F250 Vegistroke now with the new V3 module!
 
Location: Wyoming | Registered: July 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rpman:
Hi Sam/Sun. I'm having trouble keeping my oil temp below 205-210 f. Do you think that would be a problem. the oil seems cleaner at the higher temps.


Hi Tim,

It makes sense that it would be cleaner, so I suppose you wouldn't have to run it as long. I'll do some more high temp runs to parse out just how much difference it makes. I'd assume you have high temp hose etc. to run that hot?

I've run the last two batchs at 160, primarily because it is easier to handle the rotor than it was at 180 (which is about the hottest I've run). But if I can get it cleaner faster I’ll raise the temp back up.

Sam


2002 F250 Vegistroke now with the new V3 module!
 
Location: Wyoming | Registered: July 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just wondering how gallons per minute correlate to PSI? I keep seeing the manual valve people are adjusting to get the right PSI but how are you able to tell the GPM flow rate through the Centrifuge?


95 Ford Powerstroke Diesel 2 tanks diy
84 GMC 6.2 Diesel
Had: Several Diesel Mercedes
 
Location: Missouri | Registered: December 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your only concern should be the pressure...the flow will take care of it self.

The jets in the centrifuge determine the flow rate.

Any flow the pump puts out that is more than either .93 or 1.8 GPM must be bypassed back to your source tank.

Thanks

John
 
Registered: October 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The flow through the CF is determined by the 2 jets. All you adjust is the pressure. You can measure the flow with a gallon jug and a watch, but its not needed.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Has anyone actually tried this small Harbor Freight pump?? I don't mean to be redundant. I've already seen in the thread that someone answered 'No' to that question. But has it actually been tested or just assumed?

The reason I am asking if someone has tried it is because one time my post pump '3 micron filter' plugged and the hose from the pump discharge to the filter was as hard as a rock from the pressure.

I think it might work...


95 Ford Powerstroke Diesel 2 tanks diy
84 GMC 6.2 Diesel
Had: Several Diesel Mercedes


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Location: Missouri | Registered: December 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i dont think those pumps are able to handle 90psi, i think the max is 40psi


Jetta 2002 ; 6 hole nozzles, chip, yellow koni, gli springs, neuspeed RR sway bar, skid plate, SS brakes, TT shifter, TT bushings, GTi FR brakes
Jetta 2006 chipped, Bilstein Sport, Neuspeed Sport Springs, Neuspeed endlinks, DG SS, Evolution skid plate, Eibach RSB, B100
 
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