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Dieselcraft centrifuge works great -My filter and dewater rig
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Would moving up to the OC-50 require much more pumping capacity and thus higher power requirements ? This might not work out if using a small genset like SW mentioned but I guess there is the possibilty of scaling up the genset too . I am guessing that forum members could purchase it for about $200? more than the OC-20. So I presume that with OC-50 you could cut the CF times mentioned to less than half .


1994 F250 IDI 7.3 NA E4OD

Remember that the forum search/"find" feature does not include the archives . Search the forum archives here-

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Registered: November 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rkpatt:
Would moving up to the OC-50 require much more pumping capacity and thus higher power requirements ? Thsi might not work out if using a small genset like SW mentionedbut...


This brings up another idea. I'm thinking about building a collection pump to work off a gas weed trimmer motor (Roybi). I won't be able to do direct drive but geared down it should have enough power to do the job. Any thoughts?

Sam


2002 F250 Vegistroke now with the new V3 module!
 
Location: Wyoming | Registered: July 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sunwizard and party,
I've been tooling with an oc50 for several months and having a bad time with getting it operational.
How do you manage to keep your heating elements from exploding? i've blown up 2 in similiar piping setups to the boards.
 
Registered: April 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Mrgoodbar:
I've been tooling with an oc50 for several months and having a bad time with getting it operational. How do you manage to keep your heating elements from exploding? i've blown up 2 in similiar piping setups to the boards.


Zowee, I use barrel heaters so I don't have the same setup, I don't have any problem keeping my oil up to temp. I can't imagine how you have screwing with it for months, just pull the element and cap off the pipe and use a 35 dollar barrel heater.

But, how is it exploding? Does the oil have free flow over the element?

Good luck, but Sun the Wizard will know better than I.

Sam


2002 F250 Vegistroke now with the new V3 module!
 
Location: Wyoming | Registered: July 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have never had any of my water heater elements fail. I only run them when there is 1gpm of flow across them. What do you mean by exploding? Are you running a 240v element at 110v?

There are plenty of other heating options available, such as band heaters, barrel heaters, you can use anything that provides heat.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rkpatt:
Would moving up to the OC-50 require much more pumping capacity and thus higher power requirements ? This might not work out if using a small genset like SW mentioned but I guess there is the possibilty of scaling up the genset too . I am guessing that forum members could puchase it for about $100 more than the OC-20. So I presume that with OC-50 you could cut the CF times mentioned to less than half .


The OC-50 costs over double, at $479 instead of $220. It does 1.8 gpm which is almost double the 0.93gpm. So the power for pumping is double. Its capacity is double at 20 oz. versus 10.5 oz.

I haven't heard from anyone running one to tell if it removes particles and water at double the rate, but it seems like it should.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hey Sam Crowe,

Where did you find barrel heaters at $35? I would like to get a pair.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1984 3/4 ton Chevrolet Suburban 6.2L - 120,000 miles on biodiesel/WVO (yes, that number is correct!)

1992 Ford F250 extended cab 7.3L ATS, propane injection, water injection - 55,000 miles on WVO

1980 Mercedes 240D - 2,000 miles on biodiesel
 
Location: Missoula, MT | Registered: January 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by John Mason:
Where did you find barrel heaters at $35? I would like to get a pair.


Hi John,

I've gotten a couple from an on line supplier, greenroadsupply for one. The others I got from a feed store here in town.

Sam


2002 F250 Vegistroke now with the new V3 module!
 
Location: Wyoming | Registered: July 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've been told by an anonymous vendor of biofuels supplies that the reason they don't sell CFs is that everyone gets sticker shock at the prices many CF companies charge. I followed the link RKPatt provided on page 43 of this thread and although I found things to be a little pricey, it didn't seem that bad.

I think the costs add up when you buy a gear pump from Dieselcraft to go with the Centrifuge. The thing is, I think that after you factor in the costs of the Oberdorfer pumps (not cheap) and the GE motors (not free either) I think they're not making a lot on the these pumps. I figure they're maybe making about 20-30% on them. It's really more of a service to the customers so they can get their CFs spinning I think.

So this leads me to the big question: How much do you people think a total package CF system should cost? Please be realistic. I'm thinking of making a semi-continuous, semi-automatic CF system with self draining rotors. I'd just like to see what people think is a fair price for a turn-it-on-and-leave-it CF system that will reliably turn WVO into clean,dry svo fuel or biodiesel feedstock.

I know that many of us love to tinker and experiment making our own stuff. I'm just cheap. And lazy. I'd like free fuel, cleaned and bone dry by the time I've had my morning coffee. I want to be able to dump whatever slop I can get into the feed tank, flip a switch and go to bed. Am I asking too much? Does anyone else feel like this?

I don't want to keep checking for water and deciding whether the oil needs another pass or not. I don't even want to check the oil for water at all, but if I have to, I'd like to do it only once per batch. I want to get so bored of checking and finding only dry oil that I stop checking completely

The tech to do exists, but it costs. If I made some of these, what would they be worth? Be serious. If you don't think the extra features are worth any extra cost, please say so. I could always make a bare bones model also.

I've figured out a way to make a self draining centrifuge that should keep all water out of the fuel. Reasonably priced.

Hard packed particulates would still have to be removed manually, but a truly continuous process centrifuge costs HUGE money. Talk to Alfa Laval or any other industrial CF company to find out how much. I've seen them advertised surplus for many thousands.

What would you pay for a CF system controlled by a chip and sensors that you could turn your back on and return to find clean, dry oil or biodiesel?

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm trying to hijack this thread for financial purposes, but since I will make one for myself, I can make some more for others if there is a demand.

When it comes to my CFs performance, I want the easy life. No coming back every few hours to check stuff. One shot effectiveness.

On board should be no problem.

Is anyone even interested?

I'm not asking for a commitment for purchase, I just want to know if anyone else wants what I want and what they think would be a reasonable price for a total CF system.

Thanks.
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I want what welder is describing.

I have completed my own CF based on the Dieselcraft CF and have to take it all back apart to re-seal all the fittings, etc. due to leaks. It cost me $220 for the CF, $100 for the pump, and a $5 motor from a garage sale. Probably $50 worth of plumbing fittings, guages and pressure valves, too. I would have liked to get an all in one built system, but I was too cheap. After fighting with this one, I wish there was a completed one I could just purchase...but it took me working on it and getting frustrated to reach this point.


1985 Mercedes 300D, sold, Heat exchanger and injector line heaters, all single tank. 1997 E300D Benz ... biodiesel.
 
Location: Cocoa Beach FL | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
How do you manage to keep your heating elements from exploding? i've blown up 2 in similiar piping setups to the boards.



I plumbed my heater elements to the suction side of the pump. works great, no problems blowing seals. I'm not sure why everyone is putting them on the pressure side.
 
Registered: December 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Welder, please start a new thread to discuss your new CF, since that could turn into a long thread of its own. Then I will answer you there.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I put the heating elements on the output side of the pump. I think it is better that way becuase it prevents too much heat reaching the pump. I don't have the specs on it, but there was a max heat rating on the Teel pump I have.

I have never blown a heating element, except for when I let it switch on without any liquid around it. Make sure you have liquid moving over it all the time it is on.


Paul

1983 Mercedes 240D Single tank WVO - FPHE, Injector Line heaters, aux fuel pump. Water/Methanol Injection. Frantz bypass oil filter. - North Florida
 
Location: Fernandina Beach, Florida | Registered: March 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by teacher:
quote:
How do you manage to keep your heating elements from exploding? i've blown up 2 in similiar piping setups to the boards.



I plumbed my heater elements to the suction side of the pump. works great, no problems blowing seals. I'm not sure why everyone is putting them on the pressure side.


Putting the heater element on the suction side runs the risk of cavitation, and damage to the element.

I plumbed my heater after the teel and I've never had any leaks, even on the heater threads. I just use teflon tape. I've tested it on up to 200 PSI.

I think the trick is to tighten it as much as you can. I tighten mine with a 14" wrench with a 12" extension. I tighten it until I can't move it no more, this usually engages 3/4 of the NPT thread. No leaks so far in any of my projects, including my bio processor.
 
Location: KTown - Itch Capital of the World | Registered: June 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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welder,

I would be interested in one. I have been holding off buying a DC because I was savingn up for the larger -50 model, mainly because I want less time between cleanings. I would love to get something that you are describing. Would it function in the same way - oil pressure driven by a fluid pump like the Teel?

Please let me know when you post a new thread on this topic.

John


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1984 3/4 ton Chevrolet Suburban 6.2L - 120,000 miles on biodiesel/WVO (yes, that number is correct!)

1992 Ford F250 extended cab 7.3L ATS, propane injection, water injection - 55,000 miles on WVO

1980 Mercedes 240D - 2,000 miles on biodiesel
 
Location: Missoula, MT | Registered: January 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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FYI as to How much will the centrifuges hold?

As the dirt accumulates on the rotor walls, the effective radius at which the particles get separated starts reducing. Separation efficiency does drop when the rotor gets filled more than 50% due to this reduction of maximum radius. However, it must be kept in mind that the centrifugal force is directly proportional to the radius and bears square proportion to the speed of rotation. Hence, the centrifuge efficiency falls by 25% when the rotor gets filled 66% of total capacity.

We have seen that the rotor never gets filled 100% by dirt. This is because, oil under pressure makes annular space around the deflector and passes to the nozzles. The rotor in such cases gets about 95% full and stops removing contamination further. Whatever contamination is collected in rotor remains in rotor and that present in oil keeps rotating through centrifuge system without getting cleaned.
 
Registered: October 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Who wants to buy an OC-30? I've been thinking of selling my OC-30 to get an OC-20. I want a smaller unit so that I have a better view of the side mirror in my van. The big OC-30 is too big and is blocking my field of view for the passenger side mirror. Kindda dangerous.

Mr Dieselcraft has sent me a new rotor for it.

OC-30 has a 3.5 ID rotor compared to 2.9 (I think). Maybe >50% more crud holding capacity. Somebody can ran the G figures, but with a bigger rotor, your WVO will experience significantly better g's for better cleaning.

I run mine continuously for 12 hours and I only clean every batch. After the 12 hour run, I have a cake-like accumulation of about 3/4 inch inside the rotor (sometimes only about 1/4 inch). I estimate I can ran another 55 gal batch before having to clean the rotor. Your results may vary but there is no question, the OC-30 will save you a lot of time cleaning the rotor. It remains effective with significantly less cleaning between passes. Like I said, I only clean every 12-hour ran. This is a total of over 12 passes thru the centrifuge. This unit might be a good compromise between the much more expensive OC-50 and the small OC-20.

Just a tip for those considering buying my unit. You will get the best filtering and dewatering result when you run it at 140*F and 85 psi. I finish dewatering after 2-3 hours but I ran it for 12 hours to reach the cleanliness standard for my Duramax. It takes the heater 5-6 hours to reach 150*F, then turn it off but continue running the CF until it colds down to 80*F in another 6 hours or so.

Make me an offer. I was thinking between the price of an OC-20 and an OC-50. I forgot exactly what I paid for it, but I think it was $280 or so. PM if interested.

I don't think Dieselcraft sells the OC-30 anymore. So if you want the bigger capacity, you have to buy the OC-50.
 
Location: KTown - Itch Capital of the World | Registered: June 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would think that if you wanted to have a more flexible and cheaper setup, you would go with 2 -20 model centrifuges. You could run them in serial to have more removed per pass, but that would require another pump or in parallel both on the same pump.
 
Registered: January 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I'm not sure why the blow, except I assume they were not getting enough flow. I've noticed where they explode is where the flow enters the t-section at the base of the element. I tried pre pump heating setup. But not enough suction to run it through the heating setup. Plus if it blows up pre pump, pump may seize (ask me how I know). I'll probably get some barrel heaters and or figure out a way to attach elements to the underside of the barrel. I have to say the cf setup is 'in theory' simple. but once you physically start working with these setups and the oil. life sucks.
 
Registered: April 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you John Mason and BK Hosken for your replies. They say that when it comes to advertising or customer service, only a few percentage of people affected either negatively or positively actually respond, even though they are inclined one way or another. Going by that statistic, there are at least one hundred people who want a total package, one shot system.

At this point, The responses to my offer certainly justify starting a whole new seperate thread as Sunwizard has requested.

I just want to thank Sunwizard and all the pioneers who participate in the research and development recorded in this thread. Centrifuge tech is well over a hundred years old. It's nice to see that smaller units like the DC unit and others can be successfully adapted to our purposes.

I agree with JNA systems that buying multiple OC-20 fluid driven Dieselcraft centrifuges and plumbing them in series would likely start to approach single pass effectiveness.

If it takes an average of 3 passes to get dry oil reliably, then all I would need to do is buy 4 OC-20 units and plumb them in series. I'm not sure if the restriction on the line imposed by the first few units would drop the available working PSI to an unnacceptable level or if the pressure would build up to a constant, effective level.

I think JNA saw the same thing that I saw; the only way to avoid multiple passes would be to employ multiple rotors. On page 43, Sunwizard estimated that electrically spun rotors already have a multiple of 7 times the residence time of a fluid spun rotor (even at 4 passes on the DC unit). I figure that two rotors, electrically spun would be extremely effective.

I hope someone tests the effectiveness of running multiple fluid driven rotors plumbed in series. Plumbing in series would avoid having to buy multiple pumps. Maybe this approach would provide a cost effective way to achieve single pass effectiveness.
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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