Water pumps can't do 90psi because they are not "positive displacement". Sort of they leak pressure around the impeller. PSI and GPM are not related by any formulas. You determine the ratings by reading the manufacturers specs, or if you don't have that, you test it yourself.

http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0710_dr...il_system/index.html
has great pictures of an engine oil pump and dry sump system.
Race cars have been using these for years however not too cheap. If you want the slickest cleanest most expensive plumbing around use the aeroquip stuff like the race car dudes use.

Having said all that. I would guess an engine oil pump from a bigger diesel engine would work. You would need to make some backing plates and adapters and use some type of coupling.
Engine oil pumps have pressure relief valves so if something went nuts it would divert the oil where ever.

Engine oil pumps live in a hostile environment need little cooling and lubrication.

I can only build stuff in my head as I have an apartment.. sigh

Oz

Guys, especially Sun,

We are currently having a difficult time getting rid of the water in the batch of oil we are now centrifuging with an OC 50.

Our normal procedure is to use a crackle test every hour until the oil tests to 500 - 1000 PPM. We are running at 221 degrees Fahrenheit or 105 degrees Centrigrade with no significant lessing of the % water after eight hours. The oil is clean but is holding on the its water. It is a well used batch of oil, too.

Any tricks on getting the water to 500 - 1000 ppm?

I appreciate all that you guys have done for us!

Michael

2 things to try: Leave it settle overnight and drain off the bottom until its transparent. If that doesn't work you might need to mistwash, since if you have soap in there it is an emulsifier which keeps water suspended. Soaps form naturally with any reaction of VO with an acid or base.

You have to tell us more about your setup. Is it an open top or closed top drum? A few pics will be worth a few thousand words.

quote:

Originally posted by veggieguy:
Guys, especially Sun,

We are currently having a difficult time getting rid of the water in the batch of oil we are now centrifuging with an OC 50.

Our normal procedure is to use a crackle test every hour until the oil tests to 500 - 1000 PPM. We are running at 221 degrees Fahrenheit or 105 degrees Centrigrade with no significant lessing of the % water after eight hours. The oil is clean but is holding on the its water. It is a well used batch of oil, too.

Any tricks on getting the water to 500 - 1000 ppm?

I appreciate all that you guys have done for us!

Michael

I read on another CF thread that Sunwizard linked to a Grainger bypass style regulator suitable for CF application.

Does anyone remember what page that might be on?

There is a mcmaster one linked on the summary on page 1.

I searched the entire first page of this thread and the summary, but couldn't find any regulator link.

P.S. The McMaster link for mist heads actually goes to the drafting equipment page.

mcmaster part# 8088K14 $21

quote:

mcmaster part# 8088K14 $21

That's an adjustable relief valve, not a true pressure regulator. It may function reasonably similarly, but a bypass regulator should hold a more steady pressure.

A fluid tech I spoke with regarding this issue was concerned that after the relief valve cracked open, as the flow bypassed it would vary thepressure in an uncontrolled fashion. I know that would depend on how smooth the pump output is, but there would still be a minor pressure fluctuation near the time the valve opens. Obviously since you've been using this valve to regulate pressure successfully for years, it's not a big issue.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: welder,

Just got my report back from Blackstone...interesting after my last CF tests...but..ok, I'm still surprised:

quote:

SAMUEL: Iron was the only element out of line in this oil. It's roughly 33% higher than we would expect to see for an oil run 10,000 miles, so this is something to keep an eye on. It may be due to something operational rather than a mechanical problem. If you do a lot of towing or hauling, that could explain it.
Mountain driving is another cause of high iron. None of these are serious problems--it's just the nature of the type of operation this engine sees. No fuel or antifreeze found, and the air and oil filters are fine. Run the next oil 10K to establish wear trends.

So...is it, or not, coming from my vegoil??? But I really didn't expect to run 10K on that oil, and I really don't want to do it again. We're looking for another vehicle to convert since between the two of us we're putting a lot of miles on the truck.

Speaking of, I just ran 80 gallons in my DieselCraft, but it was 80 gallons I've had sitting in storage from last fall. I figured I'd see what kind of polymerized oil I'd extract, but really nothing... but more black goop than I'd expect, probably iron! I'll scrape it out and toast it this evening.

Sam
Wyoming

quote:

I just ran 80 gallons in my DieselCraft, but it was 80 gallons I've had sitting in storage from last fall. I figured I'd see what kind of polymerized oil I'd extract, but really nothing... but more black goop than I'd expect

Sam, did you store it in a deep freezer? If not, most of the black goop and iron (shouldn't be any in WVO anyway) should have settled out. Something is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by canolafunola:
Sam, did you store it in a deep freezer? If not, most of the black goop and iron (shouldn't be any in WVO anyway) should have settled out. Something is wrong.

At times, but it went in hot and settled from there. All the heavy fats settled, the oil was 52 degrees F when I pumped it into the CF tank, and almost half was so crystal clear I could see all the way down to the saturated fat section, 100 gallons worth. But, those sub 1 micron particles might not settle like we think.

It could be from cooking high iron vegetables, or from meat. I'll get it figured out, just not as quick as I'd like, other things in life get in the way. We keep the truck running almost tag team, Jennifer got home late yesterday and it appears the alternator went out, thankfully it wasn't completely dark when she pulled up. The oil I took from storage was going in the truck today, but now I'll have to work on it...course its snowing...


Sam
Wyoming

In my opinion, the high iron readings have nothing to do with the amount of iron in the wvo you are using......you need to shorten your oil change interval. Fuel gets past the rings in very small amounts........more when the engine is cold........diesel engine oil has additives to handle diesel fuel dilution, but not wvo. Wvo in the engine oil begins to polymerize.....essentially turning into plastic strands that can buildup and plug passages, cause rings to stick, and wear metals to increase.

This is not all fact.......rather a theory. When I first converted to wvo, my truck was fueled heavy. I could black out the road by getting on the fuel before boost was up. I continued to run this way when burning wvo, ran 8k miles or so on an oil change. For the first time on that engine with over 100k miles I decided to get an oil analysis done by blackstone......just for grins. It came back with all wear metals high.....lead, copper, chromium, aluminum, iron.....not extreme, but enough to indicate I needed to change some things. I changed out my high flow injectors and put back in the stock injectors, replaced my high performance turbo with another that has less lag, and adjusted my fueling to produce less smoke before boost is up, AND shortened my oil change interval to 4k miles. Normal oil analyses since then. Just my experience(s).

Waylan

quote:

Originally posted by walexa07:
In my opinion, the high iron readings have nothing to do with the amount of iron in the wvo you are using......you need to shorten your oil change interval.

Hi Waylan,

I agree, I do need to shorten the oil change interval, I hadn't intended on putting 10K on that oil.

But, I have found iron in WVO, and that is why that is suspect. No other metals were at all high, and no sign of polymerization. Basically it was a very good report, outside of the the iron. Their comment on the iron, regarding towing and mountian driving...I did tow and after all I live in Wyoming <g>. Regardless, I don't think that is a large factor.

Sam

Sun,

I know this is off topic, but is this your blog on your "WVO Conversion on my 1995 Dodge Cummins 4x4 Diesel Truck" (http://www.xyzworks.com/wvo.htm ) ?



Have an automated converted PSD (Vegistroke), that's for my wife. I just got a 12/97 manufactured Dodge Cummins and I'm thinking about using your exact setup, I don't need the fancy buttons I used your exact setup for the centrifuge, I've been using it for months without issues (I'm amazed how that thing can turn cloudy oil into the good stuff again), I too like things simple. Are there anyother mods or changes you would do to this Cummins setup? I found a 30 plate 7.5 x 3 FPHE on ebay for $85.

Thanks,
Michael

Good to hear about another CF thats working.

Yes thats mine. No changes I would make. I bet you will like that truck. The latest thread about it is here:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28

Hello to all, and especially to Sunwizard, Canolafunola, and Sam:

Here are three photos of my setup. This shows the OC-50 and the top and the grease screen that prevents debris and allows air to pass. It also shows the vent tube and the three way valve to change over at shutdown. We have four 4500 watt heaters so that we can heat the oil quickly because of problems with water removal. See Question #1, below. We have wrapped carpet pad around the barrel to insulate it.

http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=172704

Question #1: We are still having problems with driving emulsified water out of the oil. Some of our oil is well used and I know that this is tougher. We take the temperature to about 230 degrees and run it for an hour to get the water to 500 - 1000 PPM. Maybe one issue is that the oil often expands to the bottom of the drain tube at the bottom of the three-way as it passes into the barrel. Does anyone have some ideas on more efficient water removal?

(Group of) Question(s) #2: We would like to test the oil for water and particulates, etc. Herguth wants hundreds of dollars. Sun, how much did it cost you when you for your tests? Ideas on a better or less expensive lab? Are there some sort of standards or standard tests for WVO?

Question #3: Sun, you may have said this before, are FFA's and soaps removed with the centrifuge? We are not mist washing partially for this belief and partially because we find it so difficult to remove water.

Thank you all in advance!

quote:

SunWizard
Member
Posted 07 April 2008 06:01 PM Hide Post
mcmaster part# 8088K14 $21

YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 Running on B100 and 2 tank WVO, 81 Mercedes 300D
Low fossil house- 100% solar/wind power, 90% solar heated.
Check out the VO forums at www.burnveg.com/forum
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: 31 August 2006

Is this valve okay for usage with an OC50, or comparable sized CF? I say comparable sized because I'm really tempted to buy a Filterfuge FF60. I've read that they're less than $250.

I think the flow rates and pressure requirements of the OC50 and FF60 are reasonably close, so I'm hoping the McMaster valve #8088K14 will work properly for that application too.

quote:

Originally posted by veggieguy:
Question #1: We are still having problems with driving emulsified water out of the oil. Some of our oil is well used and I know that this is tougher. We take the temperature to about 230 degrees and run it for an hour to get the water to 500 - 1000 PPM. Maybe one issue is that the oil often expands to the bottom of the drain tube at the bottom of the three-way as it passes into the barrel. Does anyone have some ideas on more efficient water removal?

1st idea, an open top is far better (2-3x as fast) because of flash evaporation combined with centrifugal dewatering. Do you get visible free water in your CF rotor capture? Thats the sign you are getting centrifugal dewatering.
Your design may have this problem, I can't tell from the pics, From my summary on page 1:
Note that I tilt the barrel towards the output so that any water on the bottom gets sent into the CF. If you don't suck from the lowest point, there could be a pocket of water that settles out and keeps re-contaminating the dewatered VO. A cone bottom tank would be the best, but this was a lot cheaper. Here is a good way to test if you have a good barrel drain and tilt, pour an inch of water in the bottom and see if it all runs out the drain pipe. The suction should come from the lowest point, and the pipe should go continuously lower until the pump. Otherwise you could get a pocket of water in your pipes. This the most common problem I see now that many have tried to copy my design and "improve" it.

quote:

(Group of) Question(s) #2: We would like to test the oil for water and particulates, etc. Herguth wants hundreds of dollars. Sun, how much did it cost you when you for your tests? Ideas on a better or less expensive lab? Are there some sort of standards or standard tests for WVO?

Cost me nothing since Dieselcraft paid and they use that lab regularly. The hot pan test is the standard test for VO since its what most use. The sandy brae test seems like a good method to try.

quote:

Question #3: Sun, you may have said this before, are FFA's and soaps removed with the centrifuge? We are not mist washing partially for this belief and partially because we find it so difficult to remove water.

FFA aren't removed by this or any settling method, and they don't need to be removed. Soaps aren't removed and could be a problem since soap is a good emulsifier. If you have soap, a mistwash is the best way to remove it.