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I'm spending over a thousand dollars to have my 1985 300TD Mercedes Wagon repaired. The gas tank collapsed and the mechanic feels that I am not filtering my waste oil sufficiently because he found a clump in the evaporator lines that cannot be attributed to diesel. I send my oil through 100 micron screen then through a 5 micron sock filter and finally through a 1 micron filter. I have a Lovecraft conversion kit in my car. Yesterday I did a hot pan test for water and there didn't appear to be any after that unscientific test.

Am I doing something wrong with this process? Do I need to spend money on a better filtration system instead of my gravity system? Do I have to use a centrifuge to take out more particulates?

To be honest, I am feeling overwhelmed.
Thanks in advance for any guidence.
 
Registered: December 19, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The problem might be very clean fats and pho which will solidify out of the VO at cold temperatures and clog filters and lines. How cold does it get where you are? This is a common problem where the VO is heated to filter it.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
The problem might be very clean fats and pho which will solidify out of the VO at cold temperatures and clog filters and lines. How cold does it get where you are? This is a common problem where the VO is heated to filter it.

John,
I live in southern California so it only gets into the 30's (F) in the early mornings and warms up to at least 60 during the day. I haven't heated my oil prior to filtering it. I did the HPT, as per your suggestion, which did not result in any bubbles coming to the surface. I garage my car so I never have a tough time starting it in the morning.

I don't know what Pho is. Is it slang for crud?

To be honest, I've read your posts on other forums and I'm a bit nervous now about my system including the fact that Lovecraft installed my conversion kit. My filtering partner left me out in the cold (on many levels) and now I am on my own. He heats his oil and then sends it through a centrifuge. He has two barrels and one massive cube for storage. He has a pump system to take it through this cycle and then one to put the oil into his tanks. I have set up a gravity fed system into a 55 gallon plastic rain barrel. He was a chemist (in a previous life) and was on top of everything. I am feeling overwhelmed and inadequately prepared for this now without him. My space is limited so a two tank system for filtering isn't practical.
This is what I modeled my system after:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...aHFg&feature=related
but I did find this on another forum site but can't access the pictures:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103
This one is a two tank system and I don't have the footprint to accommodate this set-up:
http://kungpaojetta.blogspot.c...tation-complete.html

Needless to say I am struggling through the voids and would appreciate any direction. I leave for the mechanic in a few to pick up my reconstructed car. Thanks so much.

ImageUntitled-1.jpg (7 Kb, 24 downloads) Filtering set-up
 
Registered: December 19, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm guessing that the problem is more related to the Lovecraft conversion than the filtering of the VO. Inadequate filtering usually shows as clogged filters.

This is primarily a biodiesel forum so you might not get much help here. I suggest you post your problem at the Frybrid forum http://www.frybrid.com/forum/index.php
There you will more likely get the attention of someone who lives in your area who can give you some hands-on help.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have 3 mercedes that have over 85,000 miles on wvo. I use only a single tank system in them all. It does not get below 35 degrees down in FL either. I use a 55gal heated drum. I heat to 150 and then let it settle over nite. I then reheat and pump thru a 10/5/1micron sock filter. I mix 1gal diesel to 4 gallons wvo. My only problem has been the Ford 7.3 that is never running right. The 300's just run and run.
 
Location: So Fl and North FL | Registered: March 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by cur.bill:
I have 3 mercedes that have over 85,000 miles on wvo. I use only a single tank system in them all. It does not get below 35 degrees down in FL either. I use a 55gal heated drum. I heat to 150 and then let it settle over nite. I then reheat and pump thru a 10/5/1micron sock filter. I mix 1gal diesel to 4 gallons wvo. My only problem has been the Ford 7.3 that is never running right. The 300's just run and run.

So you do not use a centrifuge and you haven't had any issues with your engine or your gas tank?
 
Registered: December 19, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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PHO= partially hydrogenated oil. PHO and oil with animal fats in it become thick below 60F and solid in the 30-40F range. It will clog anything but a heated system, like a two tank conversion. You cannot remove water from VO with a filter, which IIRC is what lovecraft says that it does. I don't understand what you mean by a collapsed tank.

That video you posted is BS. You can't remove water that way. It sounds like you have PHO or fat in your oil, and the system in your car probably needs to be modified. Please post more detail.


1984 Volvo 240
Elsbett 1 tank/glow plugs/injector nozzles/FPHE/fuel filter heater system, block heater, ILH
20%Kero, 80%WVO winter blend
 
Location: New Jersey | Registered: August 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a Lovecraft conversion kit in my 1985 300TD Mercedes wagon. The oil doesn't solidify in the 30-40 degree range as I have tested it.

My gas tank imploded when some polymerized oil clogged the air intake vents (two straw like pipes that lead from the gas tank into an overflow chamber which is black and oval and sits under the hood of the car) and cut off the air exchange so that the tank squeezed up like a tin can and the black overflow chamber cracked.

My filtering method: settle the oil for 2 weeks
run it through 110 micron plastic bucket filter
pour it through a 5 then a 1 micron sock filter
I'm worried about my engine now because I do want to continue to run wvo but do not want to screw anything else up. I came to this forum to be educated and to seek the advice of those who have been doing this longer and who are willing to share their knowledge. I want to do the right thing and need help.
 
Registered: December 19, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Do not continue to run WVO with that inadequate Lovecraft system .Remove it completely and start over. Hopefully, only minimal damage to the engine (eg " coking, polymerized crankcase oil, has occurred. Search the various WVO forums ( http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...ms/a/frm/f/159605551 www.frybrid.com , www.burnveg.com ) for 2 tank conversions .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rkpatt,


1994 F250 IDI 7.3 NA E4OD

Remember that the forum search/"find" feature does not include the archives . Search the forum archives here-

http://www.biodieseldiscussion.com/forums/search.php
 
Registered: November 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Veggiemoilelady:
One tank systems are vulnerable to FATS in any filtered VO especially if there is inadequately heated VO. A quick way to see fats in filtered VO is to put a qt or so in a glass jar, place it in the refrigerator for a few hrs. If there is fat in the sample, it will be very obvious as there will be two distinct layers The color of the fats will be somewhat white or creamy and the oil will float on top to the fat. A friend has a MB one tank and filters with an heated Upflow system. He was always clogging filters in about 150 miles or less. I processed 25 gals of his "heated upflow filtered oil" COLD filtered, using a Simplecentrifuge CF, for his oil. He was very surprised to see the very large quantity of FAT was in the oil when the CF bowl was cleaned. He ran my filtered oil in the single tank and didn't plug the filter for the entire tank of VO. He purchased the Absolutecentrifuge and has no problems now with plugging filters. I would recommend adding a very large 16 flat plate heat exchanger as close to the IP as possible. Another item you might want to consider is a HEATED VW fuel filter. Frybrid sells one for $185.
Dragonfly
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I use a COLD upflow settling system and no fats or PHO get into the vehicle tank. I don't need a centrifuge to get clean dry VO. I run mixes of VO, BD, and ULSD in temperatures well below zero, in a cold fuel system with a FPHE added before the fuel filter.

IF you use heat in the UVO processing then the vehicle fuel system must be heated to the same temperature or higher or fats and PHO will separate out and clog screens and filters. Hot processed VO in a cold fuel system is a common cause of problems.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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IMHO, SVO is SVO and not a blended fuel. His post was info as to why the clogging. Having to settle the VO for a long period of time is something that seems counterproductive to me and depending on how much VO is needed per week, maybe it satisfies the need. With an open bowl CF, gravity feed, 1500 watt electric hot water heater element set to 150F and a flow rate of 1/2 gal./min, I can process 40 gals. in 80 mins. The best part, for me, is that the oil is only handled ONCE when the cubbies are dumped into a 55 gal.s drum. The next time I see the VO is when it is pumped into the car (two tank system). There are a few members of the Greater San Diego Greasers who have one tank system. All but one has added a 16 plate HE, and in some cases added the heated VW fuel filter. Another item to consider is to replace the engine thermostat with a higher temp thermostat. VO needs as much heat as possible! Sorry for the long post to answer a simple question.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
SVO is SVO and not a blended fuel.
That is irrelevant with regards to getting the UVO clean and dry, and cold filtering the high melt point components that will settle out and clog filters.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
veggiemobilelady


You have a poor vo system in your mercedes. How much does your mechanic know about running vo?
I hope to be wrong, but you likely have two strikes against you.
After your mechanic gets it going, go to straight diesel for awhile. Stay with diesel until the weather warms up (March or April). You need to try blending.

PS You do not have a "gas" tank, you have a fuel tank (gas implies gasoline).


David Norwood

2001 F350 7.3 DI purchased new by me and it is the first DI experimented with and talked about on this forum.

Updated 1/2011 Alternative Fuel User Since 2003-vo is always in my fuel. Only one fuel tank. GPI/CIM-TEK spin on filterhead and 10 micron filter. Superchip. Hutch and Harpoon mods 2010. Diesel inline filter between tank and Airtex E2236 fuel pump (rated to 110 psi).Fuel pressure gauge. HOH for fuel line heat from tank to 12v lift pump. Two 12v 36" heaters, one before add on filter and one before OEM filter.

Cool weather mixes updated 2010. 100% vo to 70°. 66% to 35°. 50% to 10°.
 
Location: Upstate South Carolina , USA | Registered: December 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John,
Interesting that you state your the oil is cold filtered in a upflow system. Yet, you also state your vehicle incorporates a FPHE! With the engine up to its operating temp, the FPHE will dissolve the fats and will be burned. Don't know where your FPHE is located before the VO filter or some other location. Veggiemovilelaqdy most likely doesn't have a FPHE in her system to dissolve the fats and therefore clogging the filter.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The cold filtering is the last step that starts with cold upflow. The whole process removes particulates, water, fats and PHO. All cause problems in fuel systems.
The FPHE is before the fuel filter, therefore fats and PHO can clog the fuel pickup screen in the tank.

quote:
Veggiemovilelaqdy most likely doesn't have a FPHE in her system to dissolve the fats and therefore clogging the filter.


...or the fuel tank screen.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sorry to hear your system failed, but it was bound to happen. If you're going to run a single tank kit, it is best to cold filter or settle your oil at some point. Vegetable oils gel at cooler winter temps and Partially Hydrogenated Oil will gel and clog your system unless your entire fuel system is heated. Problem for you is that some PHO was likely heated for filtering and cleaning prior to entering your vehicle, but not heated enough on your vehicle to get it to flow.
You CAN get by with a single tank kit, but you need to be very careful not to put anything creamy into the car. You just want the "clear" oil going in your vehicle. If you don't have a system for doing this, or can't get PHO-free oil, then upgrade to a dual tank kit.
I had my tank vents clog up as well. Someone suggested I drill a hole in the fuel cap. I'm curious to hear about other solutions...

Jason J.
SVO Product Specialist
WVO Designs
 
Registered: January 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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