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Fine on diesel, stalling on WVO. HELP!
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Ok, so for the last couple of weeks I have been trying to do research to figure out the issue, and I am just about to give up because nothing has worked. Any help would be great.

History: I have a 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD turbo. When I got the car, ran great, no problems. I have been interested in running a diesel on WVO for years and have done a good deal of research before doing this.

I started to collect oil from a local Sonic's restaurant a friend of mine manages. From what I found, they use Peanut oil, so I figured it would be perfect. For the first month, 0 problems. Ran like a champ. I ran it on a one tank system, no additives, just oil.

About 3 weeks ago I started to have some issues. The car would idle very low, and a major loss of power out of boost.

Then about 2 week ago, it would not start on me at all. So I ran some seafoam through it and it cleared it right up for about a week. Then last week, did it again, figured I still had some clogs or something along the line, so I ran seafoam through it again (a bottle filled with seafoam and ran the car on just that until it was gone).

Then I try and go, and then I start having issues where I have random loss of power and stalled on the high way.

I ran compressed air through my fuel lines, replaced both fuel filter, checked the tank strainer (although it is just attached to the drain plug, and thus no fuel was actually running through it).

To be safe, I only added about 3 gallons of my WVO back in, but I also added a can of seafoam, some diesel kleen, and then 2 gallons of diesel to see if that would help. Nope. So I figured my wvo just wasn't dewatered properly, so we threw some HEET in the tank, and added another 5 gallons of diesel figuring if that is the issue, I would just delute the problem enough. Not so much.

Now, if I ran the car on my aux bottle with the lines ran in to it, on SVO or diesel, it ran like a champ. But it still had the issues on what was in the tank.

Today I did a much better job at dewatering my wvo and put that in an aux bottle to test that, and at first, great, then I started to have the exact same issue. The oil has sat for about a week in the NC heat now, and I boiled the oil until I didn't see bubbles anymore, and ran it through my 10 micron filter (just this test batch).

Took it out for a spin and I had the same issue as before.

Now, I watched my fuel lines, on the SVO and diesel mix, the return line has a good flow, but on the WVO, there is hardly any flow back on the return line.

What do you guys think the problem might be? If I need to blend, I have naphtha and diesel kleen I was going to start blending it with, but it ran great for the longest time on just WVO, so I don't think blending is my issue. I am just very frustrated at this point. Thanks in advance.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your desdription is what I would expect if you have a restriction someplace in the veg fuel system. Sounds like you are running on straight vegoil with NO added heat, even a small amount of restriction can cause the fuel starvation problem when trying to move cold thick oil through small fuel lines. Keep looking, something is restricting the veg flow.

Cold blends should work fine in warm temps with your Bens (many others have done it). I ran all sorts of cold blends for several years in my stock 92 Dodge Cummins pickup, about the highest veg blend I could run without fuel starvation even during summer temps was about 70% veg/20% diesel/10% regular unleaded gasoline (RUG) - or - 75% veg/15% RUG/10% diesel.

Since you are running on a cold single tank system I would urge you to blend with SOMETHING to improve ignition and combustion when the engine is cold, I never did run straight cold veg and even then I finaly had to replace injectors after something like 100,000 miles of blends due to several of them leaking. (Many blend with up to 30% rug summer and winter). Starting a cold engine on cold straight veg is going to cause repair costs eventually, most likely as replacement fuel injectors, but could also cause the rings to loose seal due to veg polimerizing behind them, that requires a full engine teardown to fix.

Peanut oil - I find that this oil gets thicker at higher temps than either soybean or canola oil, not as bad as palm oil but noticeably thicker even at warm temps of 67-70 deg f.

I have no experiance with your vehicle but you may have other filters and/or screens someplace along the fuel system?

I would suggest you do a MUCH better job of filtering the veg, I circulate it warm at least 30 times through a bank of four water filters at up to 100 pounds pressure, the smallest filter being 5 micron. One pass through a 10 micron filter can still leave stuff as big as 200 micron in the oil unless the filter is rated as an "absolute" filter, if that is the case you will likely clog it solid in less than a couple gallons of raw collected veg. Even good young eyes can only see stuff down to around 40 microns so even if it looks clean there can still be a LOT of crud in the oil.

(This links to my veg cleaning process)


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92 dodge cummins with over 260,000 miles. Running an unheated 50% diesel/50% WVO blend for about the last 75,000 miles when temps above 50 deg f, no modifications or heating except the addition of a throw-away in-line fuel filter (removed during cold weather).
As of 8-01-05 I have been testing a 75% WVO/15% gasahol (90% RUG/10% ethanol)/10% diesel blend. Works fine down to about 65 f then starts rough. Runs ok once engine warms up. Back to a 50/50 diesel blend sence 9-15-05, just to cool now. -- 11-01-05 Modified stock fuel tank internal fuel pickup to have I.D. of 3/8 inch, this eliminated cold start slow idle and bogg on acceleration. Now adding 1 ounce each of acetone and pure gum spirits of turpentine to each 5 gallons of any blend, seems to help keep the fats in solution to a lower temperature --Heated 2nd tank fuel system installed january 2010, now running on a heated blend of 90% veg/5% diesel/5% RUG (no acetone or turpentine, heat replaced these).
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have some heated line I got from fattywagon on my injection lines, and on the primary filter (the big one). As for the blend, what is in the tank is mostly diesel, with some Diesel Kleen in it and it still has this issue after driving it only a few miles.

As for the temperature out, its been hovering around 100F for the last couple of weeks. I am fixing to test the batch that did not work earlier mixed as well here in just a little bit.

As for my set up, I will admit it has been rather lax. I have the set up running through a 100micron, then a 10micron, and then a 1 micron, and only one pass, but as of late, I have only been doing it through the 10 as I am waiting on a fabricated piece to come back.

Thanks for your help Tim, I have a few things I have to check, and maybe even the pusher pump I ordered (should be in today or tomorrow) will help.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So I just ran an experiment. I took the gallon of WVO I tried to run last night, and did a mix. 85% wvo, 10% Rug, 5% Naphtha, and 1oz of Diesel Kleen (this was all in a 1gallon bottle). Got to the gas station before it stalled. I noticed some air bubbles in the lines when I tried to prime it over to the diesel bottle I had. Ran great on the straight diesel. Not so much on the mix. It was also about 100F today.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Alright, checked my ALDA and it is good to go. But I did notice something interesting. I thought maybe it was from spill, but I am noticing on my primer, there is wvo around the pump itsself and the line going to the primary filter (big filter). It has been some time since I have taken a physics class, but is there a chance the wvo is just viscous enough BEFORE my heated system that it is causing the system to pull just a little bit of air, slowly over time, to the point there is too much air in the lines and stalling, but the diesel is thin enough that the air is not pulled in. I think if I install the pusher pump, it will slowly push wvo out of those holes but run alright. If this is the case, then my primer will need to be replaced for sure. What do you guys think?
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
checked the tank strainer (although it is just attached to the drain plug, and thus no fuel was actually running through it).


That doesn't sound right for a 123. The tank strainer is behind where the supply line exits the tank.
This youtube video tells exactly how to change or clean that. At least you can see if you were in the right spot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrtBuQS8oXg

The WVO is starting to clean the 28 years of diesel crud from inside your tank. It happens on all the old Benz's the 1st time unless the tank is steam-cleaned before VO is used.


1987 MB 300D Turbo
Summer Blend - WVO w/10%ULSD,5% RUG, splash of acetone and gum turp. Afterglow mod,EGR delete, gutted cat.
1999 MB E300 TD - My own 2 tank system. EGR delete
 
Location: Richmond, VA | Registered: August 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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EdC, I have a 300TD, the wagon. The strainer is attached to the drain plug. From what someone said the wagon's tank is different than the sedan/coupe. Apparently its baffled so all fuel has to pass through that before it can enter the part of the tank where the fuel is pulled from. I checked it and it is clean though. I just got my pusher pump and I am going to test that out here in just a sec, see how that does.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You're right, I didn't notice that you had a wagon. The wagon still has a fuel strainer that looks something like this. I think it's the same part as the sedan just used a different way. If that strainer is clean then I guess you're good to go as far as the tank

http://i204.photobucket.com/al...nger/tank-screen.jpg



Ed


1987 MB 300D Turbo
Summer Blend - WVO w/10%ULSD,5% RUG, splash of acetone and gum turp. Afterglow mod,EGR delete, gutted cat.
1999 MB E300 TD - My own 2 tank system. EGR delete
 
Location: Richmond, VA | Registered: August 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, I have checked that. that one is good to go, clean as clean can be.

Anywo, UPDATE!

so I hooked up my pusher pump because it came in today, and it ran much better. I hardly got any of the previous symptomes I had before, so it seems air is getting in some how. It seems to be coming from the primer pump. Someone on another board said these are common to fail. The only thing I need to figure out is it just the pump itsself that I need to replace, or the whole housing. Either way, I cant afford to replace it until next week.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just another quick thought, have you tried running it with the tank cap off? The tank vent may be clogged.


1987 MB 300D Turbo
Summer Blend - WVO w/10%ULSD,5% RUG, splash of acetone and gum turp. Afterglow mod,EGR delete, gutted cat.
1999 MB E300 TD - My own 2 tank system. EGR delete
 
Location: Richmond, VA | Registered: August 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, no difference.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wagon tanks sit flat compared to the sedan tanks so they have more surface area on the bottom. This allows more sludge to build up on the bottom of the tank. You have to be vigilant with wagon tanks. I like to clean the strainer once a year to be sure.
Two other things you can try.
1) Blow compressed air back to the tank to see if any sludge has worked it's way through the lines.
Do it gently and remove the fuel cap.
2) and just as important. Do you have a electric boost pump in your system? Wagon tanks are lower than sedan tanks and the lift pump works harder to get the fuel to the IP. A boost pump is essential with a wagon.
Give us an update.
 
Location: L.A. Ca. | Registered: October 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I have blown air through the lines, and only wvo came out when we did it. I only recently put a pusher pump in. It worked much better the other day, but the yesterday it completely stalled out after idling after a while, and I could not prime it. Today it primed some, but not enough to get it to crank up, so my money is on the primer pump. I ordered on online today so I should have it mid this week.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Check your pre filter as well. The small plastic one. They will clog up often when your tank is cleaning itself out. When you blow air through the line from the engine compartment you should hear bubbles in the tank.
 
Location: L.A. Ca. | Registered: October 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The one that is on there is less than 3 weeks old. Same thing for the primary (large) filter.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As a famous man once said "ITS ALIVE!!!!" Thanks for all the help guys.

So my primer pump came in, replaced that, and it KIND OF helped, but she still would not turn over. I noticed a rather large air bubble still in secondary (small) filter so I removed it and the hose and plugged my fuel line directly in to the lift pump. I went to prime it and noticed a HUGE difference in pressure on the primer itself, and I could hear the fuel flowing through everything. After a few seconds of cranking it turned right over. Now it could be my butt dyno, but it feels like I defiantly picked up some power when my turbo kicks and and a tiny bit pre-boost.

Now, the pusher pump I have has a 10 micron filter already on it so for now, I am going to just test it for a few days on that, but I will add another filter back in to the system later this week once I am confidant it is running 100%

I don't know what exactly was the problem, but here is a quick wrap up of what I replaced tonight to get it running.

Primer Pump
secondary filter (removed)
hose going from secondary filter to lift pump (removed).
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by daf:
As a famous man once said "ITS ALIVE!!!!" Thanks for all the help guys.

So my primer pump came in, replaced that, and it KIND OF helped, but she still would not turn over. I noticed a rather large air bubble still in secondary (small) filter so I removed it and the hose and plugged my fuel line directly in to the lift pump. I went to prime it and noticed a HUGE difference in pressure on the primer itself, and I could hear the fuel flowing through everything. After a few seconds of cranking it turned right over. Now it could be my butt dyno, but it feels like I defiantly picked up some power when my turbo kicks and and a tiny bit pre-boost.

Now, the pusher pump I have has a 10 micron filter already on it so for now, I am going to just test it for a few days on that, but I will add another filter back in to the system later this week once I am confidant it is running 100%

I don't know what exactly was the problem, but here is a quick wrap up of what I replaced tonight to get it running.

Primer Pump
secondary filter (removed)
hose going from secondary filter to lift pump (removed).

So it was the pre filter? Ah Ha! Those will clog up quickly as your tank cleans itself out.
Take the filter off the pump. You want less filters, not more. What happens when one clogs up again? You'll be checking multiple filters again. Use One pre filter before the pump and your done.
 
Location: L.A. Ca. | Registered: October 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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the weird thing is that filter is brand new. Might have been the hose. I am going to try and just change the hose. As for the filter on the pump, this pump is kind of odd, I can't hook it up with out it. I'd have to find something at lowes or home depot to screw in to the pump to that could also connect to the hose. I was a bit confused by it. I am likely going to get a different pusher pump anyway so it is what ever.
 
Registered: August 09, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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It should unthread from the pump and then you put the nipple in it's place.
 
Location: L.A. Ca. | Registered: October 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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